Is it not cheating?

Ather Grid, Accessories and more Ather: Subscriptions
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Customers were never told about these subscriptions while launching scooter and nothing showed under advertisements or promotions.

My kind of many customers booked 450x when ather said its smart scooter with connectivity.

Just before purchase company said subscriptions, and later they told one year free and now its just limited features.

Not sure how this becomes smart scooter or scooter with connectivity as it was announced.

I am planning to go to consumer forum, if anyone interested please join me

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I am actually not sure why u started this thread. I think u r jumping the Gun.

What Ather has said it has delivered. No where has it mentioned u will get anything free. As per your logic the vehicle should also be free. But if u expected it free, then u have not been active on this forum or checked with Ather.

Subscription is an option for additional facilities. Even if u dont buy, they r still updating ur vehicle by OTA.

In case u have not purchased the vehicle u still have time to opt out, but bringing disrepute to this fine team due to ur lack of understanding or presumption is not warranted.

Lastly let me assure u the vehicle is a worthy product and a world class product.

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Subscriptions have been there since the previous model launched, that is the Ather 450 (2018 model). If anything, Ather has improved on this cost model and made it more customizable with options to opt out for those uninterested. And if you werent aware of the subscriptions, the front page of Ather’s website informs you of this. Advertisements can only go so far in conveying useful information, rest is upto the customer. It’s unfortunate that you have not done the basic research necessary prior to purchasing a vehicle and then raising these unsubstantiated claims. If you are still at the Preorder Stage, you can cancel and still get a full refund of the deposit.

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I agree no where its mentioned everything is free, but no where its mentioned ‘smart scooter’ need subscription to get smart features.

I am not talking about 450, its about 450x where its charged 1.89 lacs. 450x promoted as smart scooter, Bluetooth connectivity so on. no one will think subscription needed for basic connectivity also.

Smart scooter showing incorrect information, Smart scooter showing temporary registration number on dashboard, smart scooter does not sync with mobile app … i can’t help you if u feel this is world class scooter

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Not sure what kind of subscription u need for ather 450. Subscription for additional warranty is different, subscription for basic connectivity is so funny.

Thinl about ur smart phone needs subscription for Bluetooth connectivity, or wifi connectivity.

450x promoted as smart scooter with Bluetooth connectivity and now ather need subscription to use Bluetooth.

With out connectivity 450x is no good than ather 450, that’s the improved cost model you think? Hope u are not from Ather sales team.

I have opted for purchase because i have waited for 11 months thinking it works as advertised, as i was told one year everything is free.

Wow… i missed to reply to ur statements ‘subscription on the front page’ , nor sure which version of website front page u are talking about.

I am talking about a smart scooter announced in Jan 2020, which need subscription for Bluetooth connectivity.

I am talking about the scooter announced in Jan, 2020 where company said connectivity is the difference between 450 and 450x.

Subscription is important information to convey, smart scooter with subscription for Bluetooth connectivity will give more information

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@ram.mohanreddy Let me respond to your posts point by point.

Could you please tell me where it says bluetooth features requires a subscription? I dont see any info posted of that kind anywhere. As for why you cant see bluetooth enabled currently, Ather has said it will be enabled by Feb 2021 (via software update which will be delivered regardless of whether you are on a sub or not).

Ather Service is free for one year if you preordered before Jan 28th 2020. Ather Connect subscription that includes google maps, Ather app etc was not part of the offer. You may have received an email from Ather on this.

Please see below image from atherenergy.com for your reference. Info is available if you scroll down to the bottom.

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The Ather 450 too is a connected vehicle (i own one) and has subscriptions for Service and internet connectivity. The point i was making is that subscriptions have been going on since 2018, now carried over to the Ather 450X as well.

Improved subscription model announced based on owner feedback (450 owners primarily) over the last couple of years - quoted below.

Ather responded to this a few days earlier that a fix is in the works and until then subscription costs for connectivity are waived. Info quoted below.

Most definitely not, but easy to confuse since i am a passionate owner of an Ather :slight_smile: I hope the above information helps ease your worries.

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Nicely explained Arvind. @ram.mohanreddy all companies providing internet based connectivity features are charging customers one way or the other be it Revolt or MG

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I can understand frustration of passionate owner of ather 450.

So, Bluetooth features not rolledout yet, dont you feel this funny? Pre Order in Jan 2020, Price in May 2020, scooter delivery in Nov 2020, software update in Dec 2020, Bluetooth in Feb2021, accessories in May 2021…this is what i am talking about, why not customers updated on this. Ather fourm people aware of the details but these details not available on front page?

Why do we need to scroll down on new webpage created few weeks back, it can be showed right next to the price it self. Because its important for customer to know after paying 1.89 lacs customers need to pay for subscription to use it.

Wow…subscription charges for Ather 450 also? I am realty not aware of that. What for? To show remaining charging and OTA updates? Now i understood why people gave negative feedback when i was planning to buy this.

Bike with 40K also give one year warranty and free service. This not not something special to get one year free service for an 75 km range ( though its mentioned 85 range, it never crossed 75 for me) electric vehicle with a price of 1.89 lacs

App does not work without subscription does not seems good answer for smart bike. My expectations were different when i have pre-booked vehicle, may be its because of the hype created by Ather to attract customers.

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I’m sorry to say but Ather is somewhat different than usual bike, scooter in this industry.

Your problem is that you want a smart bike but your eyes are still considering Ather as a normal bike, so you’re expecting free connectivity features just because you’re paying a huge amount.

Let me give you a simple analogy to help you. What you’re saying is “If I’m buying Pixel at such a huge price it should have calling and internet for free without recharging your sim card”.

Imagine yourself saying “My expectations from Pixel were different when I ordered it, maybe because of the hype created by Google to attract customers”

In no way I’m defending Ather here. I echo with you regarding the timelines and half baked updates which you’ve pointed out and I’ve always complained about it.

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So beautiful explained, but as the say, u can only explain bit sadly cant understand for them.

Nice analogy :star_struck:

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If someone peels a banana and give it to us to eat and we are not willing to eat it by ourself and want them to feed the entire banana to us all at a go then that is our problem.

As @cyberboysumanjay said even a smart phone page don’t say you need a sim card to enjoy all the connectivity features (said that Ather provided that information in their website, during test drives, before purchase and at the end they also gave an option to cancel the preorder before making payment.

So I think we(you) might have moved to forum on the smartphones too. Because companies like apple Samsung, one plus, Google they charge thousands of money and cheat us by not providing connectivity free and they don’t mention to buy a sim card in their website (not even in the product description page under two three stars at least).

These details are informed long back before the announcement of payment openings and delivery dates. (Even I am not happy with the timelines but definitely not agreeing with the word cheating.)

They inform about the pricing and also the connectivity related things during test drives and also before making payments. They inform us about the updates to be rolled in few months. The test drive vehicles too don’t have the bluetooth features. If we(you) don’t study the vehicle correctly before purchase that is our (your) problem.

If we(you) are that particular on each feature why didn’t we check the product correctly before purchase.

We are missing a point here bro Ather is not a charity trust to provide all the connected features for free. There is a lot of work that goes behind it. Also network charges are not free.

Reiterating Critical OTA updates don’t require connectivity subscription. Irrespective of weather we are in a plan or not we receive the updates.Also bluetooth features are irrespective of connectivity.

At the end Ather may be a little bit behind the timelines.( Due to several reasons even they admit that) but definitely not a brand that cheats customers with false promise.

By the way we(you) are not getting the range 85 is not Ather problem because unlike any other manufacturer they provide true range instead of tested range and achieving that range requires a efficient riding skill. More than 90% customers get range more than 90km and they tell us about the range clearly during test drives that range totally depends on riding, weight, road and tire pressure. The true range they claim is under idle city conditions.

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I appreciate your comments. But I will not called it a cheating rather a “smart marketing”.

Ofcourse the scooter is at per the standards but I will also say it is not the smart scooter if there is no subscription.

But a friendly advise just go for the refund. Because the vehicle is nice but costly then other competitors.

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interesting thread.

@abhishek.balaji As a new owner to the 450X, I tend to agree with the observations made here by lot of people. Lot of information has been shared in these forums and blogs - but for a newbie like me - I would really want to know as a “summary” - what features are actually available to me and what are not? what features are in the roadmap and when would it be made available? will my subscription cover it or not?

I am sure all these data points are present in multiple places in Ather’s website and forums – but I would want it be available as a summary for the sake of ease of use.

Smart scooter or otherwise – till now, I am not sure whether my subscription supports or will support (in the future) - bluetooth for music and calls?? I am not sure whether the existing connectivity is 3G or 4G?

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We have the same connected features as the 450X. Gmaps, Ather app related features, OTA to improve or add features, documents upload, tow or theft notification, monthly ride stats reports. So we pay the same as 450X owners. I don’t get the negative feedback - around 2.5k a year is not a lot for a scooter that keeps improving. Many of the features I mentioned were improved/added later based on feedback. If people think connectivity based features ran for free, that is just poor research. Like @cyberboysumanjay 's analogy, you cant expect to buy an expensive phone and then hope for it to run connected features for free.

I agree with this. Looking at the website, Transparency could have been better and new customers should have obvious access to such info. But no denying that info is available on site for those who are willing to read through.

Again, incorrect. Every aspect of the service is covered with Ather’s 1 year offer including pick up and drop and it can be as frequent as necessary. A typical 40k vehicle says ‘free service’ upto 3 times and covers only labour charges, nothing else.

The delays are not just restricted to Ather, covid has hit everyone’s delivery timelines. That would be the primary reason I would excuse them but yes it is disappointing that there are delays. The website should have info on Bluetooth and accessories laid out more clearly.

I don’t think any petrol or diesel vehicle owners get the exact mileage the manufacturer touts either. It will always differ based on riding style. Many owners get 90+ too. The numbers shown on the dashboard are based on median values using Ather’s ride data - meaning most customers get that much. So if anything, Ather shows an estimate that is more realistic and data driven.

App again requires vehicle connectivity. Connectivity isn’t free. Hence payment.

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Service: I had manufacturing issue with my scooter. I asked for pickup and drop, they declined as I’m staying in Kadugodi area. On pushing, I ended up waiting almost 10 days for a small fix to be done. Not sure if this is called world class experience!

Subscription / Milage : Why should customers research and test everything? Infact Ather told 115km for one charge in idle scenario and 85 in real time scenario. On top of this, 1% charge goes down for 2 hours even without usage as per support team. If Ather is following all other manufacturers in marketing strategies, what’s so different to consider them.

Delays and Covid : may be all other areas impacted by covid but IT is not impacted. Giving Bluetooth connectivity on dashboard needs 6 months of work! that’s crazy. Does Ather agree if we say that we will pay 50% on delivery, 20% after OTA update, 20% after Bluetooth enabled, 10% after all the features gets released as per earlier commitment?

Connectivity and App: Bluetooth connectivity is enough to get app synching. No need of subscription for the small things. You won’t believe my bike is still displaying a temporary registration :slight_smile: thats how a world class vehicle is working!

Ha ha ha think about same thing in a different way, do you buy pixel if they say we will sell mobile, you need to pay subscription for using Bluetooth connectivity, and u need to pay subscription for using simcard ?

1.89 lacs is not a small amount

Good joke, does Ather think customers are paying to charity trust to take 1.89 lacs money with out providing the featured they committed and advertised.

No customer running charity trust, we are paying premium amount for a small 75km range scooter. Does Ather agree if i say i will pay 50% at the time delivery and 30 % aftee OTA upgrade and 20 % after all other features are delivered.

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I have MG, its 3 years free subscription and i heard it will be extended with no charge. Unlike Ather, MG price tag is reasonable compared to competitors even its imported brand.

XUV500 has maps, OTA updates for lifetime, its cheap as its make in India product and people liking it still

People opt for electric vehicle mainly for fuel savings , for Ather, a make india product after paying 1.89 lacs again maintenance in the name of subscription which is almost same as fuel charges? This is not going to workput in long term.

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@ram.mohanreddy Responding to your posts.

Are you outside the service area? Entering pincode at the time of purchase on the website should have informed you of this. If you were and they didnt agree on pick up, you probably should raise it with customer care.

You are free to opt service without subscription - pay as you go. Once your 1 year offer expires that is.

You already received a response on the Bluetooth bit - there’s no subscription necessary for it. As far as I am aware, No such info is posted anywhere on this.

As for subscriptions for the simcard, are you indicating that you are willing to pay on the go for data usage on Ather? I don’t see how that is cost effective - be it phone or scooter?

Owners like me and I suppose even Ather would probably recommend that you postpone your purchase if you aren’t happy and want the whole package. I would ask you at this point why you did not consider waiting?

You have assumed a lot here. Pretty much all IT companies have taken a hit in deliveries and that’s just software and IT specific stuff. Ather is a hardware company too and built the dashboard from scratch. It is not like the Bluetooth feature just gets switched on. No point in delving into the complications related to lockdowns. I think we can cut them some slack on delaying Bluetooth by 3 months when we take into account that the whole world came to a standstill.

Comparing a nearly 25 lakh car with bundled data to a scooter seems a bit much right? Pretty sure they must have bundled that cost into the vehicle - hard to notice obviously with that price tag. If Ather had vehicles to sell at that cost, am sure they would happily do the same. Unfortunately they are in a market segment which is relatively much more sensitive to the price tag - case in point, you the MG EV owner vs you the Ather 450X owner. Hence you have the choice to not subscribe to data features at all or pay a nominal cost per year/quarter to enable them (again, Bluetooth features are available either way). And let’s compare apples with apples - if you can find a rival of the 450X with a cost model for data usage that has been done better, that would make for a sound argument.

Going through all the info on their website isn’t a huge ask really🙂 in fact almost everything you are not happy about right now could have been avoided easily by referring information on their website.

Also let me at this point request that you consider all of the above responses from forum members. Some of your grievances have been posted repeatedly (Bluetooth subscription, range of 75) even though we have responded with useful information.

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As i told, i am not a sales person or share holder to compramize or explaon this detail way , spening so much time.

I am in bangalore, in service area only. And all this discussion happened with customercare team only.

MG is not high-end in SUVs, but Ather is…1.89 lacs for 75km range bike is real high range. I agree that in price its world class vehicle.

Can Ather prove range is more than 75? Bluetooth connectivity does not need subscription? As long as Ather wont confirm these … these are my experiences. I have all right to talk about my experience

Don’t generalaize saying all IT companies impacted, i am working in IT from paat 20 years. In my circle no one said deliveries impacted because of COVID.

I agree, i might have stopped or delayed my purchase if i had this information that they are delivering half tested, half developed product. There was no information to anyone on that. Dont tell me that i need to ask CFO and CTO proactively before buying it. Information was not passed to customer thats why i reiterate that its cheating in a way.

Do you know? Ather does not even give proper invoice or booklet for 75km range, 1.89 lacs vehicle?

if u are happy with ur ather … enjoy. I am simply irritated…because i have paid money for false promises from Ather

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I can understand your frustration. I was in your pair of shoes once. Ather 450X is a half baked product. True Nobody here is denying this fact.

Talking about myself, I bought the vehicle just for playing around its Software which is not upto the mark as of now. Agreed.

Ather has complicated things and changed so many things in a short interval of time that people are very much confused. And then in meets they say “Why people are confused with the Subscription Model yet” Guys, you messed it up that’s why they are confused. You’re not the only manufacturer giving connectivity but there is no other company lying with so much confusion regarding the product.

With all these I’ll conclude that Ather is immature and it’ll be fixed eventually with time when they learn from their mistakes. That’s how it works :sweat_smile:

To clear your confusion I’ll divide Ather into two parts, Hardware and Software.

Hardware wise it’s a beast I’m not an expert of that part but honestly I don’t have any major concerns.

Software wise it has hell lot of issues. Although some of those have been fixed in the recent OTA and remaining will also be fixed in upcoming OTAs.

It’s a half baked product software wise. But you can’t ignore the fact that unlike normal IT industry this product has to undergo physical testing and seek approval from various sectors. I’m not justifying the delay but yes it’s something which we need to keep in mind.

You always have the option to wait and purchase when everything is fixed. I don’t see them forcing you to pay now :sweat_smile:

Regarding the proof about 75km range, they can give you proof of 116km range if that works for you. But if you believe set of owners like us 80+ is easily achievable.

I got the vehicle at 1.67Lakhs, considering 6 yrs of life I’ll add 14k in the bike’s cost and make customer pay 1.81Lakhs with free connect plans is like forcing users to opt for connectivity. Regarding companies offering free connectivity. Jio also provided free connectivity at start just to make customers habituated to access connectivity and then they started charging.

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Ather being a startup can’t afford that!

Ather’s communication is slow, I’ll term it as lack of communication.

Ather’s software updates is slow, BT will be rolled in few months, I’ll term it as half baked product.

Ather’s price is high and product in early phase is not upto the mark as they’re advertising, I’ll call this as early access to a premium product.

I still fail to find a loophole to attach a cheating tag :thinking:

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Few points…

Be grateful Ather is running a forum and letting u call them cheaters and keeping silent, it shows their intent to learn and improve.

A company 100% indian, started from scratch, has produced a product I am proud of as an indian.

They r still in the learning curve, we need to be patient. If you cant be, let go and move on. Dont spoil the atmosphere.

Mahindra, MG etc have got deep pockets and still they faced many issues, XUV when launched had so many bugs which took a year to resolve. Despite being a new and novice Ather has done a commendable job.

Learn to appreciate, easy to point fingers, no one stopped u from asking questions before u purchased.

Lastly I would term this thread as inappropriate and childish to be further commented on as the horse is even refusing to look at the pond😃

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