Is it not cheating?

I assume this is your first EV because that’s how FAME subsidy is given. You sign a form, give your aadhar drtails and the manufacturer will get the subsidy amount from the Government later. At the time of the vehicle purchase you’ve to pay an amount inclusive of the subsidy. Below was how it was when we purchased our E2O back in 2018

  • Ex showroom price including GST 9.33L.
  • FAME subsidy 1.24L,
  • Registration fees and other charges 10k.
  • Road tax ZERO.
  • Insurance 31k
  • Total OTR price 7.68L

Ather’s pricing is also similar which is detailed in their website

Also note that as per the new FAME II regulations, one aadhar card will get a subsidy only once.

You paying 1.89 and taking 29k back from the Government (not sure if that’s possible also) or you paying 1.6 for the vehicle is the same. I don’t understand your “they are putting that also into their pocket” line of argument.

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Yes, we are talking about this only. We are paying 1.89 lacs + Insurance + Charger Installation Charges which comes around 2 lacs for the scooter which is 80k extra from Ather 450 and the only extra thing we got is warp mode.

Not sure what about this invoice :blush:, Ather is not transparent on its price and policies also

SmartSelect_20210210-075843_Office

Add images

@thavaa2008 please post in English so the rest of the non-Tamil speaking community can also read and respond to your post.

No subscription is mandatory. If you don’t want to use the connected features, you are able to still use the vehicle as-is. They are no charging you for sim alone, there is a cost to use cloud api, store your ride data, cost to use Google Maps api. All these cost money. But believe me, they are not going to become millionaires by charging all of us ₹2500 per year.

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In this invoice fame incentive is reflecting. I don’t see anything wrong in it.

Now to understand Ather 450X is directly not eligible for fame-2. So to give the benefit to customer what they are doing is they invoice the vehicle at less cost and then remaining amount is invoiced as a performance pack. It is legal and done by many manufacturer’s and customer is benefiting by doing so. You might have received one more invoice for performance pack. On top of fame subsidy if your state is giving any benefit for EV’s then that amount is also deducted.

So Ather cost is less in Delhi compared to Bangalore. Less in Bangalore compared to chennai or other city. Because each state has different EV policies.

Also if our Aadhaar card is already used to purchase a 2W EV then subsidy cannot be given unless we register with any other Aadhaar of your family. We have to pay entire money without subsidy in such cases.

Fame subsidy is given for one 4W & one 2W per Aadhaar (both non commercial).

They cannot cheat in invoicing and get away at least for their own sake of IT and Audit purposes. Not only Ather any company in that case. What we pay is what we are billed for.

Delhi price

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Yes, when they are charging 1.9 lacs for vehicle not giving 2400 connectivity features wont make them billionaires

They have to give both Fame Discount to customer and connectivity features with out subscription for warranty period at least. Because they are claiming its smart and connected scooter.

Hope u have seen my Invoice, why Ather took 1.6 lacs from me and given invoice for 1.40. Why they gave another paper tellong 20K for warp mode. Where is remaining 9000 they got from.Fame discount

And do you know whats exshowroom price they showed for registration.

Thats why i mean its all cheating

Hello!

I would like to share my thoughts on Govt. Scheme on Fame II Subsidy.

I) As per the Scheme, it is the responsibility of the OEMs to submit the claim to the Ministry. We as a customer cannot do so. There are procedural guidelines issued by the Ministry on this matter.

II) Again as per the Scheme, to claim the subsidy, the ex-factory price of a two-wheeler has to be within the prescribed limits of Rs. 1.5L. I presume, Ather on purpose gives two invoices (one for the scooter at Rs. 1.4L and another for the performance pack) this is to pass on the subsidy benefits to its customers.

And I did some additions and subtractions based on the subsidy and the figures in my invoice and I don’t see any remaining figures bro… :sweat_smile:

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I feel there is a misunderstanding of getting subsidy so I am trying to explain. This post is not by any chance asking to change anyones opinion and just only thinking that it may help someone or the other.

Please ignore if it is out of anyones strong opinion.

Let us assume there is no subsidy what we pay is 160942 plus GST.

Govt is giving 29000 on that as a subsidy so that money is subtracted on payable amount.

This same amount is what they get from government. Ultimately we are getting 29000 benefits given by government.

Now what is their ex-factory price & for how much they are selling is something which we need not bother because that is their business.

We should not see it as on how much they are getting 29000 it has to be seen as govt is giving 29000 and they are transferring the same benefit 29000 to customer.

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The calculation done in the post for which you replied is not considering GST I don’t know how

Trying to address your queries here:

Why is connectivity charged and not bundled?

Learnings from the 450 told us that owners like to use their scooters differently, some want connectivity only on the scooter, some want app-scooter connectivity, some don’t want connectivity at all. The plans are to cater to the different needs, and your needs can change over time, so it’s flexible enough for you to subscribe only to the features you need.

It wouldn’t be fair to bundle it in the price itself, would it? That’ll just increase the price for everyone, even those who don’t want the features. We can’t give it for free, since there are recurring costs associated with these features:

  • Software development costs (There are real people who develop software, maintain it, and work on new features and updates)
  • Data connectivity costs (for the 4G connectivity)
  • Data pipeline and storage costs (Your scooter connects to our servers in the cloud and then to the App, enabling the wide variety of features remotely)

No subscription is mandatory, you can choose to stop renewing or not take a subscription at all, your scooter will still work great without connectivity features. All OTAs containing critical bug fixes and improvements will be rolled out regardless, so your experience continues to improve, even without a subscription.

Btw, Bluetooth features do not require any subscription and will be available for anyone with a 450X.

Why Service plan is required?

It’s not. You can choose not to take a service subscription, and choose not to have your scooter serviced at all, it’s completely up to you and your judgement to decide that. Other OEMs give you 3 free services - these usually cover only labor and not consumables and is bundled into the cost of the vehicle. EVs, in general, do not undergo the same wear and tear as regular vehicles, and require very little servicing, only checks and replacement of consumables like brake fluid, pads etc.

The service plans offer convenience to you as an owner. It allows you to control your annual costs of servicing but paying a single fee for the service subscription.

Insurance - covers for accidents and any damage as a result Warranty - covers for manufacturing defects and issues Service - covers periodic maintenance.

Is Ather trying to loot?

There are segments in products, there’s the premium segment that we’re selling in right now. There’s no hiding away from the fact that it is an expensive scooter compared to the market. The 450 was sold at a loss, to test the market and see if people would buy it. Hence the price difference. You’d have also noticed other manufacturers raising the prices, cos they were selling at losses too.

As someone else mentioned in this thread, it’s a low volume product right now. Traditional auto companies have had decades to sell their products and lower the cost of manufacturing. That’s our goal too, maybe in a little less time :slight_smile:

So no, we’re not trying to loot you or cheat you or misguide you. In fact, we’ve openly and transparently talked about the journey we’re going through. Feel free to read these when you find some time:

https://blog.atherenergy.com/what-we-missed-explaining-during-the-launch-of-ather-450x-40e211fd33ae

https://blog.atherenergy.com/2021-growing-up-645e2bc7869b

Some more minor points:

  • Charger installation chargers are completely optional. You can install it yourself if you’re handy with tools, not install and just hang it somewhere, some of our owners have kept it in the boot as well. You can also opt for the portable charger instead of the Dot.
  • On FAME subsidy, it’s duly applied to you. The actual cost of the 450X without subsidy is just the price you paid + 29k. That’s the price that some owners pay if they already have bought an EV earlier, or are not eligible to claim the subsidy.

None of the community members who’re responding to you are paid or fanboys of Ather. They equally appreciate us when we do good, and call us out when something goes wrong. They all went through a similar journey as you as they understood EVs, and are just trying to help.

Looking at your following responses, it’s clear that the Ather 450X did not meet your expectations, and that’s solid feedback for us to take for newer products down the line.

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Where is this Bluetooth you speak of?

This is news to me. During my order completion process, there was no choice between the Dot and Portable. The Portable was an extra 10k option. A Connect subscription wasn’t.

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Bluetooth will be rolled out via OTA update.

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Wait! So you mean this highly advertised feature that is one of the 450X’s USPs isn’t ready yet? What a surprise!

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Yes it isn’t ready :slight_smile:

Yes, news to me also. Ather asked me to pay 10000 + more for porrable charger.

electric bike without portable charger is something worst idea.

These are things not highlighted by anyone anytime.

Taking feedback for newer models does not help anyone who spent 2 lacs on 450x

When ather charged more for 450x 50% more compared to 450, not sure what extra we are getting.

Ather really looting, Ather employees may not feel that but the customers struggling will be aware of pain of spending 2 lacs on a scooter with hightlight of 7 inch lcd speedometer

Different people got different kind of invoices, in fact i have got invoice only for 140k, i have got another bill saying 20K for performance improvements just on another paper

And at the time of delivery, no one even explained that some features not availble, and some features are chargable. For a whole 1.5 months support team was telling that we will get update and receive all features after that

Not sure why not we can call this as cheating

So why is it being advertised and spoken about like it is ready?

In case you have not purchased one already, you can easily convert your Dot charger into a portable charger.

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Wow…nice idea, i might have opted for portable if they asked for options

I have waited and made my electrician to install it , he charged 10K for installation and charges as i stay in high rise building.

In fact, Ather asked more money for same installation. 2250 + 150 rupees for feet of wire

Installation is not that easy in highrise buildings, i was expecting its free installation and company charge for extra wire.

I was never knowing that they will sell out the scooter and wash ofd their hands

Ather website changed many times and so much of information removed and added.

Technology need to be used for better service not for cheating and misguiding customers

If Ather is not cheating, why they did not inform customers that not all features are ready thru email or some other channel or while the time of delivery

Most of the early customers were forum users and almost all them were pretty active. With growing number of customers from different regions and background, I think Ather should ensure all the information available for forum users should be available in website and the prospective buyers can be sent the link in the email (before delivery) to go through. That will minimise the disappointments.

It is difficult for Ather Customer Care or Experience Center people to explain everything during delivery as some might not be interested at all as many knew everything already.

For e.g.

99% people would opt for Dot. Expecting them to pro-actively tell everyone you can choose Portable charger or Dot is not required.

By default, a Dot is not authorised for use by other vehicles. But, if you call customer care, they will enable it for use by other scooters. This use-case is very rare. One cannot expect this to be explained up-front.

Most people won’t bother to know the breakup of Base Price + Performance Pack as long as the price is correct. Expecting this to be explained with the reason (FAME eligibility) is unfair. If you ask and if they don’t explain then it’s wrong.

After many iterations and feedbacks, Ather introduced the new subscription plans. If you add up, its pretty close to the old pricing. But, the new plans allows one to pay only for what they want.

But, things like late availability of Bluetooth, Smart accessories, Transcluent Panels are important and USP of the new model. They could be mentioned with a * in the website along with the features. Because 2-3 months delay of these features would not deter any buyer but will avoid such surprises and disappointments later.

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