Discussions on pricing and subscriptions

All about purchase
195

Dear @abhishek.balaji, Ather,

So, I’ve been deliberating for the past four months, ever since the 450X was announced, on why to buy one. The why is because I am trying hard to convince myself to buy one, but I can’t find a reason to. It is like trying to fit a one meter rod into a cabin bag - there is no way to make it fit. It simply makes no economic sense any way. This is not because of the high display costs, but because there are quite a many hidden and incremental costs as well when added up ends up at a pretty penny which do not offer a corresponding value for the money.

I am not talking about the subscription model which makes even less sense. I have no qualms with the model itself but the entire thing on duration, terms, etc. is so confusing and opaque that I rather nor even discuss it. And of course, it is overpriced. I cannot imagine paying Rs.2000 a month on a scooter which already costed me a lakh.

For the buy-upfront version, the 450X costs 160,000. Adding in road tax (5% for Kerala), and insurance (approx Rs.4000) the on-road price (thinking there won’t be any surprise charges) for the scooter will come up to Rs.172,000. Now, that is a very big amount for me to spend on a scooter, no matter how “premium” it would be. It is around Rs.30000 more than the Gixxer-RTR 200 48V group, and you can buy two Activa 125s or three NTORQs for the price. But I get it, they are different products and so on. But for a lay user its the same.

However still, there are other things in play. I still have to pay Rs.400 per month, ostensibly for OTA updates and also monthly electricity charges. Can’t the former be made optional? I mean, can’t I connect it to a mobile hotspot/Wifi and update the software? Anyway, shouldn’t Ather be giving those updates anyway? And I am expecting a bump of Rs.200-300 a month for the electricity being used. So, that makes it to around Rs.700 extra every month that I need to pay to run the scooter. Note, this becomes Rs.2700 per month on a subscription plan. Any petrol scooter costs less that that to run a month. Any advantage an electric scooter offers goes out of the window. Nothing about the Ather 450X’s offering and its price makes sense from a user’s point of view.

I would like to buy the Ather for what makes EVs the most attractive: peace from worries. I want to go “start, stop, wheee!”, not tie myself into little knots with subscriptions and SIM cards and data plans. As a customer, what is my value proposition in buying an Ather? Or, for quite the large bundle I am spending, what do I get? The “snob factor” of a green number plate? I am sure it is an absolute blast to ride, all cool, but still no cigar.

See, I really want to own an Ather. I really, really, truly madly deeply want to see Ether succeed and EVs fill Indian roads. I want Ather to become the Tesla of electric scooters. I also do not want Ather to sell their wares on a loss like some wannabe e-commerce startup that thrives in the muck of discounting and predatory pricing to only dry up at the first hint of sunlight. I am, in fact, an advocate of the fact that products should only be sold to make the seller a clean profit. However, the user should get corresponding value too!

As I see it now, the Ather 450X is absolutely only a lifestyle product that well-heeled youngsters can show off in their limited circles of like-classed friends. Sorry about that. For a normal, monthly-earning middle class person who is looking to switch to a sensible electric two wheeler (and there are millions, trust me on this), the 450X makes no sense.

What I would expect at this price point: 105 km range Not necessarily such high top speeds. 70 kph should do fine. At least one free battery replacement. Free OTA updates (through my mobile data and Bluetooth/Wifi). I can do without all the fancy bells and whistles of Android touchscreens, Google navigation, music players etc. I have all this on my smartphone already. Can’t you offer a variant that does not have any of these knicknacks?

If you were to offer a variant incorporating all these and at around 149000 upfront and nothing asked for ever again, I would buy one (or two) in a heartbeat.

Please do not get offended and don’t be sad, kindly take this as a feedback. You guys create marvelously engineered wonder products (coming from a guy who buys only the absolute unique and absolute best, which is why I want to buy an Ather), but you seem to have forgotten the customer here.

Are you sure your product management and marketing expert team are confident they put the package together the best they could? I don’t think so.

Cheers and stay safe

~vadakkus

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196

Hi… Initially I was at the same situation as you are. After comparing many scenarios, I got convinced of the pricing. As consumers we have to understand Ather as a company first. Ather is not trying to sale mass market products. We can’t expect a KTM to cost like a Pulsar. Similarly the 450X is a premium product with a very exclusive set of features. That should be supported. Indeed, vehicle performance is not one of the comparisn factors to evalute the 450X, but the underlying technology is. Otherwise there won’t be a difference between iOS and Android. I hope the analogy is understood. I am glad that Ather is thinking of a premium business model in the EV space instead of selling rebranded Chinese crap. They are also not selling foreign premium stuff like Bajaj do with KTMs, and TVS with BMW. Owning the Ather will not only be owning just a vehicle, it will be owning the exclusive technology in it as well. I could only justify the value when comparing it with a premium product like KTMs instead of a mass market one.

But the 450X will definitely be a thing so show off one’s “Aukaat” same like owning a KTM. :sweat_smile:

Actually I am myself in a dilemma whether my “Aukaat” will be enough to own the 450X or not right now but surely I will try to build myself upto it by the time they start delivering. :v:

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197

Was in a similar dilemma had choose between Access 125 and the Ather 450 for a daily usage of 20kms it would never break even. Ather 450x better battery and power was tempting. Went with the head and booked access then couldn’t go through the decision, I was willing to spend the extra 20k for the experience of owing an electric so booked again and awaiting registration. Couldn’t wait 10years more to experience electric.

I strongly agree what ever data pipeline cost and product software development cost should not be pushed to customers when cars can run navigation with Android auto, it should here too.

Connectivity of phone through sim already was present and paid for and again paying for it made no sense. Ather 450x is not a value proposition, it’s like saying Duke 390 is not a value proposition, its meant for those whose fancy performance on a scooter.

Whether or not the audience wants such a offering at a price is what we have to see.

We might even see a no bells and whistle model with same hardware with lower performance for our segment. Fingers crossed.

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198

If I purchase ather 450x at 149,000(Plus) Can will be upgrade to ather 450x by paying additional 10,000 at later stage

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199

I dont think that is allowed. Question has already been answered by the Ather team.

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200

We’ve announced it for the Ather 450 as of now.

201

Opting for Ather Connect is optional, but the services cannot be offered for free. If you don’t opt for a plan, you’ll still get critical bug fixes and updates.

Just to add more clarity on this, connected services and features offered do cost us money per user. We don’t monetise your data or sell it to third parties, instead making useful insights and features available because of that. Google Maps for instance, is free for the end consumer when you use it through your personal devices, but having it embedded in a scooter means that we go through their APIs, where we’re charged per request.

However if you do opt for the battery subscription model, the monthly fee that you pay covers the following:

  1. Battery replacement guarantee as long as you’re subscribed
  2. Unlimited Ather Grid charging
  3. All connected services
  4. Over-the-air software upgrades

So the only cost you’ll end up footing above this, is the electricity cost per month + any required periodic maintenance (which is free for the first year if you pre-ordered before 28 Jan).

Haha not at all, feedback from enthusiasts like you are extremely valuable and will definitely help in designing future products and services. I understand that an Ather 450X might not make sense for you right now, but we hope to get you into our “Owners’ Club” some time :slight_smile: Nevertheless, you should definitely take a test ride when we start making them available and that will convince you!

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202

Not the same tech or hardware. Android Auto is an infotainment system that serves as a secondary display apart from the dashboard. Plus, without connectivity on the scooter, you’d lose features such as remote status & charging tracking, location monitoring etc. To add to this, most people don’t have WiFi connectivity in their basement nor are always in close range to use Bluetooth. This leads to a broken experience.

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203

@abhishek.balaji Many of us cancelled our order due to the lack of clarity on the subscription and pricing of the Ather 450x. Some of us have rebooked at a later point of time after the Ather Open Forum and it was promised that 1 Year Ather maintanance and other pre-order benefits will be provided to them. But, over here you have mentioned that these benefits or only for orders before 28th Jan. Please provide clarity on this.

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204

Don’t worry, what was promised earlier, will still be applicable.

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205

Thanks for the update @abhishek.balaji :slight_smile:

206

Hi,

I had query regarding subscription fees. Apologies if this has been discussed earlier in this forum. I’m new to this forum and could not find the info I’m looking for in any thread.

So my query is, do I have to pay some minimum subscription fees post purchase of the vehicle every month/quarter even if I pay the cost of vehicle upfront? For example I own a Activa and I don’t have to pay any subscription fees. Only thing I pay for is fuel cost and servicing. Do we have same ownership model for Ather also? I read somewhere that for OTA and sim charges we have some fixed monthly fees. What if I don’t want to use these services and use the vehicle as any ICE vehicle? Is it possible that I can register/de-register for these subscription plans anytime depending on my need?

Thanks.

207

The first post has details that will answer your question.

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208

@abhishek.balaji what is the price of 450x without subsidy ?

I am planning to upgrade my 450 to 450x and I have already claimed my subsidy

209

The FAME subsidy which both Ather 450X and Ather 450 Plus are eligible for across all cities is Rs.29000. In Delhi, an additional subsidy of Rs.14500 is applicable over and above the FAME subsidy. In Mumbai and Pune, an additional subsidy of Rs.5000 is applicable. So you can do the math and calculate with your indicative city wise pricing.

FAME II incentive can be claimed only once per Aadhaar card. Since you have already claimed yours by purchasing 450 you can plan purchasing the 450X on lease to get the benefit or try registering the scooter in your family members name to avail the benefit.

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210

Really they must think that this is a toy and not a vehicle current days, like conventional scooter you cant ride it 100+ contineously. but costings are too high, also they want monthly money to run their business as the data charges are neglible in india but they charge huge… i hope this pricing few peoples will buy it then no body will go to purchase and the same may be observed by them so that they started sperading to other cities…

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211

FAME subsidy is 29,000, AFAIK. so that removed from your city pricing.

212

So the price of 450x without subsidy is 1,89,000/-

I am getting a resale value of 90k.for my 450 so I have to spend another 1lakh only to upgrade to 450x…

I guess that’s too much !

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213

Maybe @abhishek.balaji can answer better.

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If incase u need , Then U can use ur family member adhar card. For subsidy