Battery Pack

All discussions around the battery pack and related topics to be done in this thread.

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What is the maximum recharge cycles of the battery?

The battery is designed to last for 50,000 km at which point ~70% capacity should be retained. Hence, the number of charging cycles can vary based on charging behavior.

For instance, if someone charges and discharges regularly from 0-100-0, the number of cycles for them will be different(less) than someone who charges and discharges as 20-80-20.

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I refer your above reply.

  1. Is the 50K Km mileage, irrespective of ageing of battery? Lets say if I run 5K Km per year, will it last 10 years?

  2. What is good way of charging? 0-100-0 or 20-80-20? For Lithium battery , technical papers say 20-80-20 is better. Does Ather also agree on this?

The aging does have a role to play. The 50,000 km is averaged for around 4-5 years of riding.

A good way of charging Li-ion batteries is usually 20-80-20. However, our BMS takes care of limliting upper and lower capacity to some extent and hence it should not matter much if you charge 0-100-0 or 20-80-20.

What I meant in the previos response is, if you charge 0-100-0, you have consumend 1 full cycle, whereas if you charge 20-80-20 you utilize a partial cycle. Hence the count of cycles will differ based on charging behavior

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I have started to worry about the life of the battery. What if at the end of the 3 years, the battery’s performance has deteriorated?
What are some possible things owners of the vehicle can do to overcome this? Does Ather have a plan to go about such scenarios? I know this is too early to post this question as we have not even received the vehicle yet, but I think this one needs to be thought thoroughly.
How much would it cost to replace the battery pack with the new one? I think this isn’t covered in the Ather one expenses. Even if it approximately costed around 30-40k this is an expense that owners need to account for before buying the vehicle.

I think this is why It is beneficial for people to choose leasing over buying the vehicle. At the end of your lease period if battery has deteriorated, just return the vehicle without any hard feelings.

Any thoughts?

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Will the battery go weak if the scooter is idle for a month or so? Or is this good only for daily commute?

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I second your thoughts… Ather team pls do provide your comments on this and also come up with a plan for battery replacement… customers should not have a shock at the end of 3 or 5 years paying a huge amount on battery… what is the battery cost… Pls throw light on it…

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All Ather needs to release is the make and model of 18650 cells, you can use the cell manufacturer data sheet to know about the life. Ather themself are probabaly relying on the datasheet for their battery life calculations.
So no matter what vehicle makers say, the data given by cell manufacturers can’t be better then the data given by vehicle manufactures.

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Cost of battery replacement and expected life of battery… ? Don’t know who is the cell manufacturer… or share their number…

@Shreyas,
I assume the rate of charging also has some impact on the battery life. From what I have understood the slower it is, the better since the main killers of the battery life is heat and higher charging voltage.
Also, Ather 450 seem to take around 4 hours for a full charge using a home charger. I was wondering if you would consider (a CR may be :slight_smile:) switching the BMS to to a battery life saver mode (via a user managed control on the app/EV dashboard) which would limit the charging cycles to 20-80-20 and increase the charging time to probably 8 to 9 hours when charging overnight?

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What is the current price of batteries used in the vehicle?

The battery will not have an impact if the scooter is left idle for a month.

As discussed on the earlier threads, the cost of battery replacement that we can project today for 2021-22, when the first customers’ battery warranty will be over is 35-40,000. We will share an exact cost when we have some clarity on it. As for replacement program, we exploring buyback options.

The rate of charging has an impact on the battery life, however, the way our home charging setup is designed, the charging is not supposed to harm the battery pack. Going any lower on the charging rate or increasing charging time will hardly have any positive impact on the battery pack.
Also, the onbaord charger is designed in a way that it automatically reduces rate of charge in case the battery pack is hot. Ensuring that the pack remains at temperatures that do not harm the battery pack. And as mentioed in my earlier post, the 20-80-20 will not impact the battery life as the BMS controls the limiting of the charge, and auto cut-off of charging and discharging at both
ends of the capacity.

As for life of the battery pack, we provide a 3 year unlimited distance warranty on the battery pack with a 70% or higher battery capacity retention. With this the battery pack should still hold enough capacity to not have an impact on the performance. After the warry is over, the battery capacity will keep reducing in capacity gradually and should not need an immidiate change as long as the usage of the vehicle is within the range of the vehicle at that point.

@Shreyas
How long can the battery give mileage after 3 years? and on the 5th year?(Expecting atleast approx values)
How soon can you come up with the battery buyback options and rates based on that?
What would be the best scenario for charging the battery to increase longevity/decrease the deterioration?

I think it’s necessary to change battery every point of plant. Just like gas cylinder. So we can put a charged battery. I saves riders time and it’s more effective…

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Seems new battery tech is being developed by another start up

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This is more of a wish for next Ather products.
While I love 450 and the Grid concept, the idea of charging network won’t be practical or would not scale as there would be rise in EVs. Imagine 20K/30K EVs on road and you are waiting for a free grid point to charge.
Once you get a free grid point, need to wait for an hour to charge.
This is where swappable battery infra would help. Gogoro has proved this. Here is a recent video of it.
I wish next product of yours would have a swappable battery and infra :slight_smile: It just takes less than a minute to swap and go !!

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Can anyone detail the discussion and conclusion points in the open hose happened today?

The range of 45KM per charge reported by early owners on brand new battery is really scary. We have decided to pay extra premium blindly believing the true range combined with other supporting features. True range claimed by Ather was the major USP convinced many. If you can’t deliver on basic promise, how can we trust about your other promises?

I doubt there would be numerous problems in delivery, Ather grid, service and connected services. As early adopters we can understand some genuine problems. But please stop comparing yourself with Tesla for every problem you face. Seriously it is demeaning them and Elon.

Tesla never gave nasty surprises on basic promise as range and delivered on every promise except delivery schedule. And they worked hard and slowly increased the production.

Please clear the doubts over claimed range and performance. Anything less than promised in these two will have tremendous impact on Ather purchase.

Thanks

Right… even I am surprized how Ather team has not replied to 2 basic queries… I am seriously considering to opt for a refund due to being ignored.

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