Is it not cheating?

rajan2535 · February 15, 2021, 8:19am

I know Boeing is not a correct comparison, the point is only the intension. Agreed Boeing grounded the entire defective aircraft series that came after heavy life loss and Airlines grounded there defective flights models, then Boeing accepted their failure. Sophisticated Aircraft with so much QA checks were only able to find their mistake after life loss.

question is not about taking the Boeing example here, it is only about the intension of accepting the defect and correcting it. On this line with 3 months of driving exp with Ather, i am confident that coming days they will answer their bugs.

blackworks · February 15, 2021, 8:53am

It’s like comparing an apple to an orange and then saying it’s the intention that counts.

A motor, battery, couple of belts, two wheels, brakes and the associated control systems on a scooter are simpler than the air freshener systems in an airplane.

I’ve been riding the scooter much longer, and see things differently. Even though I don’t share your optimism, I do hope you’re right. I’m in no mood to be charitable when I’ve supported a company wholeheartedly with my wallet only to be handed a buggy prototype that nobody bothered to properly check before delivery.

akkirv786 · February 15, 2021, 12:40pm

I Do Agree on the Air freshener’s Part -

Cost of Manufacturing a 450 x is - let’s say for an Instance - 90k (Rough Estimate - 70k or even Lesser - since it’s Manufactured in Bulk). They are Making profit of More than 1 Lakh on a single 450x.

Instead of making the existing prototype/product (450x) to stabilize, they are more focused on expanding business in all cities.

Features promised are available in website only! When asked for a update they don’t provide actual timeframe (Come on, just adding features to existing app doesn’t require much time; I’m an app developer too)

And what about the referral amount of 2500! Just numbers which we can’t use for Subscription as Mentioned in website. They should make referral amount accessible for subscription from (Jan-Feb 2021). Let’s see if they adhere to policies mentioned officially on website

@abhishek.balaji, required inputs from your end on referral part - “Will Ather Deliver as promised…?!”

To all - rather than fighting/arguing/discussing among yourselves, Can someone shed lights on referral amount…?!

tanishqkhare · February 15, 2021, 2:44pm

You get ₹3500 credits when someone who uses your Code and completes payment. Untill then, it is locked. ₹2500 is the old amount before the updation of refferal program. If these credits are earned through a YouTuber’s pre order code, CS will be better to throw some light. I had also earned 2500 credits like this but that order I switched and later cancelled so I lost those If you’ve earned credits before the program got changed, you’ll still receive the benefits according to the old scheme.

blackworks · February 15, 2021, 3:20pm

I couldn’t care less what the actual cost of manufacture or the profit margin is. That’s the company’s prerogative and I don’t grudge them making good profits. In fact, I couldn’t figure out why they sold the 450 at a loss and dug themselves into a hole.

What I do expect is that they stick to their word once they’ve collected said money. There are always circumstances beyond ones control. Nobody saw COVID coming. That would definitely have set their timelines back quite a bit. Keeping that in mind, a responsible company should have made a loud and clear announcement on their homepage and / or sent out a mass email about these updated timelines. Instead, they chose to selectively reveal this critical information in much more private settings. This is not done.

What is absolutely unacceptable no matter the circumstances is delivering defective scooters to customers, and as many have pointed out here on the forum and on other channels, coercing them into accepting these despite the customers themselves pointing this out.

abhishek.balaji · February 16, 2021, 12:12pm

6 posts were split to a new topic: Motor on the Ather 450X

ram.mohanreddy · February 16, 2021, 2:40am

How does it matter to customers, customers need to get all promised features.

Thats why i reiterate its full cheating from Ather.

hemanth.anand · February 16, 2021, 3:14am

Sorry to burst your bubble but products don’t come that cheap. Men, Machine, Materials and/or Methods are not so cheap. Not even in India. I’ll happily give you my ₹90K if you can manufacture and get me a completely new scooter anything close to an Ather. From conceptualization to manufacturing to homologation to delivery. Everything comes at a cost.

It’s a fact that Ather’s pricing makes the scooter not affordable to all. I can also gather from your posts that you are unhappy about it too…fair enough. But for 70K!!! Heights of exaggeration I’d say! I can bet that even for Bajaj, the Chetak is costing around 2 Lakhs to the company.

arvind_nair · February 16, 2021, 5:28am

I am sorry but this is hilarious! Over 1 lakh profit per 450X?? So that would mean they also made 40 to 50k on the hugely popular but discontinued 450, because clearly the money minting wasn’t enough? The government must be off it’s rocker providing subsidies for a ‘highly profitable’ business like this.

Please do your research before you make such claims.

power_light2000 · February 16, 2021, 5:45am

Continuing the discussion from Is it not cheating?:

I Really waited this long for someone to point this out, I’m not even able to make a mid end gaming computer in 90k

So let me break down it for you,

Starting from the top,

Mirrors - 2000

2 pilot lamps - 900-1200 depending on what chip of FOB is used

Headlights - 5k,

front panels 10k All 4 of them Painted

front mudguard 1-1.5k, Painted

2 front suspension 3 k

wheel alloy 2 pc 6 k

2 disc brake - 4-5 k

brake pads - 1k

brakes pot - 2 pc front combi and rear single pot 4k +2 k

CBS 3 k the module which controls combi brake

brake harness 3 pc5 pc, 2 to CBS 3 output - 3k

brake lever 3k since they are with brake fluid tanks

display - 12-18k

PCB for display - 5-9k depends on the chipset

seat 2k

storage unit - 2k

rear panel 2 painted 4k

PSM motor 40k with the controller mostly I think Siemens brand “Correction Mahle Motor”

14s20p or 14p 18650 cells for 450 and 14s 10p 21700 cells each costs 700rs retail so in bulk at least 400-500 for 18650 and 500-600 for 21700 that would come around 46800 my bare minimum

then comes custom BMS 6 to 12k depending on the configuration

all black plastics around 6-8 k

rear tail light which if you break 3500(don’t ask how) so the cost must be 2000-2500

Full aluminum chassis around 20k

tires 2 2000

Lady saree guard 400

all the 1000 screws - 600-2000

rear grab handle 600 Side stand 800

and the wiring harness with sockets and other things like connectors and switches 10000 to 15000 considering everything comes in bulK you can decrease 10% and some parts I left out like the case for battery pack getting software specification certificates testing the scooter for IRDA transportation charges and much more comes to almost 2lac I remember @tarun said in one of the Owners meet that they are making a huge loss in making 450s because the plant is small and manufacturing cost is much high then they sell it to the customer that is why 450s was dropped but if they make 1 lac on a scooter then Ather would beat every scooter Manufacturer in the next 10 years making almost 100 cr every year

akkirv786 · February 16, 2021, 6:29am

If you can provide me with a Manufacturing unit like Ather, where we can manufacture in bulk (Rough Estimate- 5k vehicles), Then ,in that kind of Environment, I’m happy to manufacture and delivery at the cost of 90k

If you would run a Business you would know the actual cost - I Do - and I am Aware of it. If @arvind_nair @hemanth.anand made up your mind not to Believe, it’s a waste of my time and Energy (If you believe you are right - thumbs Up)

Kindly check the Breakdown by @power_light2000 - Thanks to u

If anyone is commenting on my post, two things:

Take ownership and get the job done - Making referral amount in Feb 2021 accessible to eligible Ather owners or
Contact concerned person and get the exact date of referral amount accessible to all

If you can do neither of those, not the right person to comment on my post

Suraj_madhu · February 16, 2021, 6:55am

Easier said than done . A factory like that isn’t served on a gold platter either. If it could have been done at that price. Why hasn’t anyone yet? I’ll believe that it can be done when I see it done.

His break down completely contradicts what you’re saying. So idk why you’re promoting it

I don’t run a business Do share the actualy cost of manufacturing of the 450X would love to see the data that to seem to have. If you can back it up with some proof. There’s no argument. But from my and other buyers perspective, @tarun does run a business and why would they want to sell a scooter for more than they should be selling it at?? More the price lesser the sales. Lesser manufacturing and more the price per unit. There isn’t an incentive for them to be making HUGE margins on the 450X at the cost of sales. but they still need to keep their business going, hence the price tag. Chetak iQube Revolt and everyone has upped their prices too.

power_light2000 · February 16, 2021, 9:17am

Cool, I thought Ather was done with Mahle because of the constant Low motor power error which was kept tripping in Ather 450s, Good to know they are still the Motor supplier for 450x too. But still, they could have considered the other vendors too.

hemanth.anand · February 16, 2021, 10:37am

Then it should be ₹70K and not ₹90K as per your claims. Jokes aside, Even with a big mass production setup, it’s just not possible at that price.

I don’t know what business you run, but my 16years of experience in automotive manufacturing domain tells me that 70K or even 90K for such a product is just unachievable

I did, the total of his breakdown comes to ₹208100 - ₹234800. Please check if it is correct.

Although you can get the attention of folks from Ather, The forum is not an Issue Resolution Centre where just you and Ather converse one-one. It is a place where everyone can put forward their point and discuss.

Thanks…This sums up the topic very well for me. Cheers

prasathvishnu · February 16, 2021, 11:05am

This has been the most entertaining thread for me in a long time. I opened forum more often to see what else is being discussed in this thread. same circle, but of different sizes.

raghav.srinivasan · February 16, 2021, 11:14am

Unfortunately that’s not how this forum works. In fact your above point has no relevance to the context of this thread and such a conversation should be in a topic such as this one.

ram.mohanreddy · February 16, 2021, 12:58pm

Whats the use of listening? If not this, there are public forums to discuss.

Just listening wont help. The people who did mistakes does not have any option other than listening.

ram.mohanreddy · February 21, 2021, 7:58am

Not just in one website, everywhere Ather doing advertising saying price is ~ 1.60 lacs instead of ~1.90 lacs. In fact i have sent email to this channel asking the source of their price for 450x

If someone still feel its not cheating , i will leave it their common sense.

arvind_nair · February 21, 2021, 8:03am

You’re nitpicking sir. In the end, that’s what the customer pays - atleast nearly 90% or more who are eligible as it would be their first EV, conservatively speaking.

kumar.uppaluri2 · February 21, 2021, 9:11am

I would say more than 95% would get the benefit of subsidy and pay this price. The website is stating ex showroom. And anyone would advertise what customer pays they cannot show gross price. Net price is what they advertise. In my opinion because of one or two percent people who are not eligible or don’t want to do any workarounds, no one looses more than 95% market.