I don’t think it will make sense for a small company such as Ather to keep making two different types of Battery packs. As they’ve said before they chose 21700 over 18650, as their previous pack had issues and the former should in theory solve these problems.
Regarding throttling Ather 450X Plus over Pro, manufacturers do this all the time. It is done to streamline product manufacturing as multiple variants drive up the cost. Car manufacturers do this all the time. Volkswagen and Audi do this all the time with their turbos. Heck, even Ferrari and Alpha Romeo do it.
The increase in price from Ather 450 to Ather 450X Plus is mainly because of the head unit being more responsive and using Permanent Magnet Synchronous motor as opposed to DC Brushless Motor on the former. This along with the newly developed Battery pack(and a new BMS to inside it) would surely have added to the prices.
But I still believe the Ather 450 X Pro should have been priced under 1.5 Lakh and then an extra addon to unlock the extra performance could have been provided.
The Subscription plan of Rs.1699 and Rs.1999 is just a gimmick to keep the price under Rs.99K to maintain that competetive advantage. Most Athers are leased and Ather know this too.
I forgot if anyone goes for Monthly subscriptions plan and next month he never pays the subscriptions payment due.
what will happen to 450X ?
it will shut down automatically in middle of the road ?
till you do not pay the subscriptions payment it will not start it is locked ?
ya Ather will ask for advance payment?
really so many doubts to be cleared
if anyone goes to QA on saturday , kindly ask about it .
Sorry for the late reply…When you returning to office after a day’s leave, It feels the entire company is running because of you I hope you understand! So here is my report from 28.01.2020
Got up at 2AM, got ready and left home at 3AM in our E2O+. when I came to the E2O, I took out the charging cable and put it in the boot and shut the door. immediately I realised that I had put the key also in the boot. But I could unlock it using the Mobile app.
This was the first time I was taking the E2O+ to the airport…it is 45kms from my home. Drove only in F mode and not in B mode to conserve energy to return back home. I had called the airport parking team and confirmed that there is a charging point but I still didn’t want to take any chances. I went there and found the slot. it was painted in Blue, and “Reserved” was written. but they had put barricades, luggage carts and everything like a dump yard. I moved the barricades and all the carts away and parked my car. Pulled out the charging plug but it wasn’t charging. There was a Fuse somewhere inside the junction box which I found out and after I turned it on, it started charging. I was relieved that I can go back home in B mode
Met Raghav, Anagh, Rajesh, Swapnil at the airport. As soon as I landed, @abhishek.balaji received us and we were taken to The Lalit in a taxi. enroute we were discussing about the probable price of 450x…Our guesses varied from 125000 to 150000. It was raining but luckily not very cold. I say lucky because I had actually forgotten my jacket. Met Ather customer #1 Aditya too and other people from Chennai.
The event started a bit late than scheduled but it gave some time to have some tea and freshen up.
Very soon we were seated and the unveil started.
Tarun explained the journey so far -the funding, the team the patents etc. The future roadmap was also shown about expnding to 10 cities by 2021 and 24 cities in 2022. There was a special mention of the community. @raghav.srinivasan@rajeshkav@arvind_nair@Rahul every one starred in the short movie. My watch, My helmet, My nephew’s Rakhi and his birthday cake made a special appearance on the stage.
With all those done, It was time for the product to take centre stage. Tarun started with a comparison to the market benchmark - Activa and how 450 was faster off the blocks. Then it was time for the 450x specs (or rather the improvement over 450).
18650 to 21700 form factor cells. Good
Range increase of 107kms to 116 kms ARAI & 75kms to 85 kms in Trurange. Mainly because of the new cells
Peak power from 5.4Kw to 6Kw
Peak torque from 20.5Nm to 26Nm
Weight reduction by 10 Kgs to 108kgs…current 450 had already reduced to 110 I guess
A new Warp mode…With this , The 450x would be the fastest scooter in India
Charging time at grid increased by by 50% to 1.5km/min…nice but I don’t use the grid at all!
Android open source OS with snapdragon processor.
Bluetooth with calling alerts
Dark theme
Smart accessories like smart helmet, TPMS
All these were nice upgrades. The ad film of the 450x astarted and the scooters arrived on stage in all 3 shades. Black and yellow looked mean, white and green looked beautiful as usual and a bit more sportier with the all-black handle cover, Green and red looked gaudy and not very nice.
Tarun explained that there would be two variants or subscription models similar to a netflix subscription. Ather 450 itself had some new ownership models that were never heard of in the 2 wheeler segment earlier (lease, esrvice subscripion etc). this was taking it to the next level. Even performance would change according to the subscription model. Plus and Pro as they like to call it.
The Plus and Pro are basically the same scooter with different performance maps. It is something like the ‘Plus’ being the successor of 340 and the ‘Pro’ is the successor of 450. If you opt for the Plus plan, the map will restrict many parameters and if you opt for Pro, the full potential of the scooter will be unlocked. I guess it will be done through OTA updates.
For example, when I see the spec sheet of the 450x, only installed capacity of the battery is mentioned (2.9kwh). In the 450 spec sheet they had 2.7kwh installed capacity and 2.4kwh usable capacity. I guess Pro plan lets you use 100% capacity and in Plus plan, only 80% of battery is usable.
Then came the pricing part. When Tarun told that the 450x would cost 99000 and I was like whoa!. But then the catch was it would cost 1699 for Pro and 1999 for Plus. The immediate question I got was…how will this work? He went on to explain that users can change this anytime they want and pause it when they go for vacation may be. “Interesting” I thought. He told that battery maintenance, replacement and everything would be taken care of by Ather under this plan. Which means users would literally get infinite warranty of the battery and they need not worry about degradation and replacement after 3 years.
These subscriptions never suit me personally…netflix or anything. I don’t have netflix or hotstar subscriptions, I have prime only because airtel gave it for free. I still have a DTH connection. So I wanted to know the outright cost. He told that users can buy outright at 149999 for Plus and 159999 for Pro. Tarun told that outright purchase would mean that battery warranty would be only the standard 3years that’s available for 450 right now.
Pricing was not very important for me to be frank. I was more interested to see what upgrade programs that 450 owners like us would be getting. However there was no mention of this in the event.
Q&A started and someone asked about the upgrade program and it was told that it will be revealed later.
Someone asked if these subscriptions also cover the service and data like for the 450, he told yes but again, it was followed with “more on that later”
Someone asked how will lease work on subscription. answer was lease will be available but more details will follow in the coming days
For deliveries it was told that 450x would start deliveries from July onwards pan-india
Other questions covered dealer network and how they’ll work on that front
Later we were allowed to take pictures of the scooter but by the time I went none were switched on
For me the disappointment was that there were a lot of questions left unanswered or pushed for later.
The price was higher than my guess and I didn’t know how people would react. but it didn’t take much time to realize when I interacted with others at the event and reading the forum. People were shocked at the price. I felt happy that I got a good deal for my 450 and I was waiting for the upgrade program details. two of my friends have booked the 450 and were waiting for this. I called them and told that the 450x is wonderful scooter no doubt but expensive at the same time. I told them to decide what they want personally from the scooter. One guy immediately completed the payment for the 450 and cancelled his 450x pre-order. the other wanted a high performance scooter and he decided to cancel the 450 order.
In the event we also spoke to Ather team and What I could gather that the 450x launch was more a business driven step. Ather 450 has not been generating revenue and the investors will obviously want returns and this event was a step in that direction. It works out to around 50k more than the 450 to the end customer making it the costliest scooter in the country. All parties may be right in their respective position, but after yesterday no body is talking about the scooter and everyone is talking about the price. Everyone is telling “It is a good product no doubt but way too expensive and confusing”
Pricing apart, I loved the matte black colour, I hated the mint shade. It was better in natural light but on stage it was really bad. I could take some pictures of it in natural light after the event
Coming to the competition, everyone is talking about Chetak and iQube. I feel Chetak is the closest to Ather. But only after a test ride of the Bajaj will I be able to understand where exactly it stands. whether Bajaj will take the cake or Ather justifies it’s price tag? One thing bugging me is the fact that Chetak top speed is only 60kmph. I know it’s enough for city, but is it fun too? Let me answer these questions when I test ride the Chetak this weekend. I don’t think the iQube will even come close to these two, considering it is a hub driven scooter like the crappy Okinawa scooters. again a test ride will answer this.
By the time I reached airport, there were 300 messages on this topic. all my waiting time at the airport was spent in reading every post and the sentiment was loud and clear. By the time I landed and removed the flight mode at 11:30pm, there were another 100messages.
I came to my E2O and saw that it wasn’t charging. I doubted some foulplay but everything was untouched. there was 66kms range left. only 4% and 6kms was added. reason was that the charging plug was in tension and it was pulling a bit and that was enough for it lose contact and stop charging. wish it had a solenoid lock like Ather! Anyway, it was enough charge but I had to drive back in the F mode. I reached home at 12:45am with 20kms range left. I slept immediately.
The next morning when I woke up at 6, I saw some 170 messages . Glanced through it as there was hardly anything new. even till now, even hour I see 50 messages!!! it was loud and clear to everyone. But the silver lining is Ather is still ready to listen. They have invited all Bengaluru owners for an open house in two days. No idea what exactly they have in mind, but “explanation of pricing and taking feedback” is what they’ve mentioned.
With this pricing I’m happy that I’m an early adopter. I’ve got a good deal I’m continuing to enjoy my 450 and it is fast approaching 8000kms.
If anyone interested in buying the 450x asks me for suggestions, I’ll redirect them to this post by @Shreyas.G where he has put it nicely about who should buy this and who shouldn’t.
Buddy buddy buddy.
For (32.5k INR) oneplus 7t, (55k INR) galaxy note 10 plus (singapore or US) are in the same price bracket as iphone 11 (50k INR) US price. And as good as the iphone 11 pro (Dxo scores, displaymate, batteryguru)
Brings us to the real issue, Chetak, iQube, F77, Revolt are good commuter items with similar ev credentials and the pricing makes them much more amiable to the regular user who considers price value above value irrespective of price.
I agree that Ather 450 was the value champion at one point in the market, but so was oneplus and their pro models never sold well here. Cos Indians are value conscious consumers… charge them what they feel is valuable . I am not saying cheap. they need to see value for the excess 45k of money for the X model from Ather
Basically, Ather 450 and 450x Plus are same with two minor differences, 1) Slight increase in battery capacity and 2) Marginal increase in range and torque. Both of these upgrades do not justify the 30% increase in the price despite the fact that 450X plus owner still needs to live with those useless mirrors (which covers 70% user body on full adjustment), poor headlamps (almost blind at night), awkward seat design(It gives me back pain after riding just 5km on it) and no center stand (a much needed feature on any scooter).
@Ather.Team I do understand that Ather is under tremendous investors pressure for returns, that doesn’t mean you shove away mass with your poorly planned pricing strategy. At least your competitors are happy now (only if you consider them as competitors as your level is different ). Being a tech, data and high consumer involvement startup company you should focus more on gathering more consumers and creating a solid consumer base first by expanding to other cities rapidly than cannibalizing (killing) your own product (450).
Definitely you guys need to rethink on the pricing and subscription models, I am hoping something good from your end
Not being a hater here but few things could have been “listened to”
Optional add-on: Seat case design inhouse by Ather team to bump up seat height for tall customers who keep sliding on the universal Ather seat
Optional add-on: Clip on center stand designed by Ather team who could do such a good job on the side stand flush with body
Optional add-on: Clip on Rear view mirror replacements
Since these are optional users who do not need them will not buy, people inconvenience can add. An accessory ecosystem is a great thing for any company ask RE for their view
Lastly, The investor return conondrum, I am not sure what investors are onboard. But expecting returns in such a small timeframe from a product that leads the market is kind of dumb. They should seek exit if they have a less than 10 year incubation. Example given by elders first let the chicken grow and then expect eggs…
475km is my commute distance per month.
Stick to my 5 year old Vespa (running and maintenance cost per month is approximately 1900INR) or get a 450 or get a Bajaj (no monthly subscriptions in Bajaj). Which would be a better option?
This query is because 450X appears suddenly out of reach for me.
Same here nothing new from @Ather.Team I was eagerly waiting for the launch and now since all hopes are dashed I only see one way out.
As per Ather
Delivery time- Q3(What are monthly units going to deliver-more on later)
Collector’s Edition- more on later
Upgrade details-more on later
Pre-order in Pune/On road cost-more on later
That is not the correct interpretation @Shreyas.G is talking about the attitude towards your riding experience vs the attitude of being price conscious. i am using a few words where he talked about his perspective in detail.
Even though i think the 450x is expensive, i have not abandoned the thought of buying it. it is a great product afterall.
@hemanth.anand
Since you have spent some time with 450X, can you confirm if Ather is able to rectify the drawbacks and major issues reported by the 450 users?
Common issues that can be confirmed without a ride:
Seat position which is uncomfortable on 450. Is it any better on 450X?
Rought edges around brake lever.
Rear view mirror design any better?
Cheap plastics used ex: fan cover.
I remember you mentioning some of the above issues about your 450 in both these forums and Team-BHP forums.
In addition, if you are attending the meet up over the weekend, then you can ask them about other major issues like phantom drain, tyre pressure getting lower every few days, etc…
Also, waiting for your test ride details about both Chetak and iQube.
Believe me, the “guy” knows a lot more about Ather than anyone else in the forum. He has clearly rationalised the decision making for folks on the border.
Like it or not, he knows what he is talking about.
Ok as you say so. Already got a warning from Ather. Arvind_nair did make a personal attack of fear mongering at me and this was personal. I am critique of thought process and generalisation. If you believe in suppression of voice and can’t take critic in the context. I’m really sorry, this community is not for me and neither is the ather team and I’m not for them as a backer.
Thanks @hemanth.anand for taking time for a wonderful recap , Loved the pictures and i can certainly agree that the mint color is Fugly , I will probably cant digest it as a color option(Lovers of Mint kindly ignore its just my perception and a very subjective topic).
Overall i feel that Ather has just rushed to do this unveil to create market traction and messed it up like anything and ended up in bad PR just because they failed to make up pricing which is one of the most important factor of any product launch.
Coming to Shreyas comments , I do not agree with that , If Ather does want to spin up a super premium scooter they should have advertised it like that so that the expectations are set for absorbing a ultra premium price tag.
Everyone know that 450 especially after fame and gst reductions has been a VFM product and they killed that value with outrageous pricing .
Secondly the upgrades they made aren’t able to justify the tag as well , If Ather said that 450x can go around 120kms in one full charge and attain a 100kmph top speed in 3.2 or whatever secconds then it makes sense to ask that price .
All the upgrades in real world are just the bare minimum and much needed upgrades which plaqued current 450’s , Still if Ather feels this is what they can offer as ultra premium product IMHO they are already failing themselves (Imagine UltraVoilette comes up with a performance scooter ) As i mentioned earlier as well Ather’s greedy pricing is not a solution and they should capture volumes and make profit by selling more not be pricing more and selling less, There’s a reason Activa is market leader Tarun compared it but forgot you can get two activas in 450x pricing…
More over they dont know howmuch number they produce per month.They simple take booking and sit on booking for 6 to 7 months…they want to cash your belief in Ather thats all…
I hope you understand! So here is my report from 28.01.2020
But I could unlock it using the Mobile app.
This was the first time I was taking the E2O+ to the airport…it is 45kms from my home. Drove only in F mode and not in B mode to conserve energy to return back home. I had called the airport parking team and confirmed that there is a charging point but I still didn’t want to take any chances. I went there and found the slot. it was painted in Blue, and “Reserved” was written. but they had put barricades, luggage carts and everything like a dump yard. I moved the barricades and all the carts away and parked my car. Pulled out the charging plug but it wasn’t charging. There was a Fuse somewhere inside the junction box which I found out and after I turned it on, it started charging. I was relieved that I can go back home in B mode 
For me the disappointment was that there were a lot of questions left unanswered or pushed for later.
. Glanced through it as there was hardly anything new. even till now, even hour I see 50 messages!!! it was loud and clear to everyone. But the silver lining is Ather is still ready to listen. They have invited all Bengaluru owners for an open house in two days. No idea what exactly they have in mind, but “explanation of pricing and taking feedback” is what they’ve mentioned.
). Being a tech, data and high consumer involvement startup company you should focus more on gathering more consumers and creating a solid consumer base first by expanding to other cities rapidly than cannibalizing (killing) your own product (450).