Ather 450X Discussions

[p10mdinesh]

Can you give approximate charges for exit at the end of 4 years. is it closer to 10kkk or will it be something like 40k.
Does it change if i have had a change of battery in this period

[abhishek.balaji]

@prvn.exe

I’ll wait and see what the upgrade plans for normal/lease customers look like, and then decide what to do with my pre-order. But in all likelihood, it looks like I’ll end up canceling too.

Hi Praveen,

Here’s the information we shared about the upgrade/exchange program:

If you’re on lease, you’ll have to complete atleast a year on the current lease plan as per the current lease terms. If you choose to upgrade, you’ll get your current lease refundable deposit (minus an exit fee) adjusted towards the new refundable deposit and continue to pay a revised monthly rental. There would be minimal paper work, no processing fee, no KYC/credit checks and no hassle of selling the vehicle.

For example:

If you purchased the 450 on lease and the upfront payment was Rs. 60k and monthly rental was Rs. 2589, post 12 months you’re eligible for a refund of Rs. 48k on closing the lease.

For the 450X, if your downpayment is 99k, you’ll have to pay 99k-48k = 51k and the revised monthly lease rental.

We’re working with leasing partners for the new plans and will announce them soon.

For all other customers:

We’re working on offering customers a “Ather Health Certification”, which will use deep system data to ensure:

• Dashboard functionality
• Battery health (SoC, performance)
• Motor health
• Peripheral system function

These data are gathered from vehicle performance logs, User ride statistics, periodic servicing logs, and charging logs.

Once you get this health certificate, we will help you sell your current Ather 450 through an exchange partner and you can pay the remainder towards the 450X upfront/loan/lease payment.

• Ather will tie up with exchange partners to provide easy exchange options.
• We’re estimating current market value of pre-owned Ather 450 to be round Rs. 85k - 95k depending on age and condition on different platforms.

Hope this answers your queries. Over the next couple of months, we’ll come out with more details on the exchange/upgrade program and how it’ll exactly work.

[abhishek.balaji]

@prasathvishnu

In that case, infinite warranty is not much useful as depicted… May be for a small percentage of users who always want to replace battery every 3-4 years, but for others it’s not a great deal.

Agreed, for a lot of users, a small degradation in performance/range would not impact their usage. The subscription plan is designed for those who expect consistent performance and range all the time. If you’re a light user and are confident that the usage would be moderated, you can go for the upfront payment option with standard warranty.

[abhishek.balaji]

@p10mdinesh

Can you give approximate charges for exit at the end of 4 years. is it closer to 10kkk or will it be something like 40k. Does it change if i have had a change of battery in this period

Depends on your usage:

1. If you haven’t changed your battery till you want to exit, you pay the residual value of the battery + some exit charges.

2. if you’ve gotten a replacement, you’ll still pay the residual value, but it’ll be higher, since your battery health would be very high after the replacement.

We’ll come out with a lot more details soon.

[abhishek.balaji]

@mehulpoddar

So I wanted to know from you that is it okay for me to go ahead with the 450 even when I want the 450X, with the hope that there will be some sort of upgrade / swap scheme for 450 to 450X?

Sure, you can go ahead with your 450 order, if you require a 450 immediately. There would be an upgrade program, you can find more details here: Ather 450X Discussions - #1676 by abhishek.balaji

[abhishek.balaji]

@spprabhu

As the pricing in not convincing Ather must prepare calculator to understand what customer is paying and what Ather is giving. Like a EMI calculator that we find in all. banking websites.

But Ather make slow productivity till u fix proper pricing. People not interest in spending high for upcoming EVs. What happens when company unable to stay afloat on pressure if company closes after filing bankruptcy.

Here you go, more information about pricing: Discussions on pricing and subscriptions

[p10mdinesh]

Then outright purchase is better.
@1580 per month we pay 75k for 4 years.
I assume this is your cost at the moment hence the 4 year time period for minimum cost exit.
if i get the battery changed after 3 years… my overall cst fr exit is very high.

So in effect there is no insurance on the battery and the subscription is only a loan payment.

[saurrabh]

@abhishek.balaji is on steroids today, Kudos man for responding each and every post, I couldn’t Appreciate Athers pricing but definitely your dedication needs a thumbs up …

[abhishek.balaji]

@spg

I did not understand the point of giving the same hardware for the 2 variants (just different software configurations) of the 450X and charging different prices for that? Can anyone explain this? Or is PLUS variant just a decoy? Basically why does the PRO cost more than the PLUS if both work on the exact same hardware and that too locally on the scooter. Like it’s not fetching the extra performance and range etc remotely from some server for charging extra for that service. Super confused!!

Hey, explained here:

Ather 450X Discussions

It’s actually a common practice in the auto industry, where the hardware remains same, but software controls the variants. There are costs incurred in enabling a lot of features including certification, subscriptions, data storage and pipeline costs, etc. Initially hardware is the same in the Plus and Pro, and the subscription model allows you to switch based on your requirement. If we see enough demand for the Plus model, without the smart features or the performance requirements of the Pro,…

[abhishek.balaji]

No the infinite warranty won’t continue. It’ll be valid as long as you are subscribed to one of the performance packs.

[abhishek.balaji]

@vkj123

The Ather website reads “Degradation/performance of the battery shall be determined solely by Ather.” Can you @abhishek.balaji run us through some info as to how company will respond to any performance downgrade, like as to what levels customer will get a new battery or will it be swapped with a serviced battery etc.

We’ll make the Battery State of Health available for you to view. If you notice battery/performance degradation, or if your battery health goes below 80%, we swap it out for a new one.

[abhishek.balaji]

@nsarathc

The monthly subscription cost of 450X for the Pro plan is so dangerously close to that of my car’s monthly running cost.

For a two wheeler, that too electric - not sure if I need to pay such a high recurring cost. Didn’t cancel my pre-order (still have hopes on Ather!), but giving a very serious think on whether 450X serves any meaning for my intended usage.

You can always purchase it upfront and not opt for any subscription. That would allow you a low monthly running cost, but a high upfront cost.

Subscription allows you to have consistent performance and the flexibility of moving between performance packs based on your requirements and needs.

Further, one of the biggest worries of EV owners is taken care of - battery degradation is taken care of, along with Ather Charge (which includes the battery cost monthly, data connectivity, data storage and pipeline costs, unlimited Ather Grid charging), in the subscription, along with Ather Charge.

[abhishek.balaji]

@manishdabra08

The subscription thing has to end. I can’t even own a scooter after paying almost Upfront 2lacs. Have to pay Ather whether i am in US for months!! What an idea sirji. Hatsoff to the guy who prepared the pricing.

You do own the scooter either way:

Detailing how the pricing works for the 450X Plus and Pro:

Subscription pricing

What you pay upfront: Rs. 99,000 (Including GST)

You get:

• Ownership of the 450X scooter (minus the battery)
• Ather Dot, the home charger

What you pay monthly: Rs 1999 (inclusive of GST) for Pro performance pack or Rs 1699 (inclusive of GST) for Plus performance pack

This includes:

• Cost of the battery , paid over time: Rs 1580
• Ather Charge: Rs. 470 (Rs 400 + GST)
  • All data usage charges
  • Unlimited Public charging
  • Access to Future OTAs
  • Data storage and pipeline costs
• Lifetime flexibility: Move up or down different performance packs, even future packs
• Infinite battery warranty
• Snooze option (Once per year, for a month, pay only Rs. 500 instead of your regular subscription fee)
• Exit option anytime, by paying an exit fee + residual value of the battery based on Battery Health.

Upfront payment

Ex-showroom price (Bengaluru)

450X Pro Rs. 159000 450X Plus Rs. 149000

Includes:

• Ather Dot - the home charger
• Battery Warranty: 3 year, unlimited km

Optional costs

Ather charge: Rs. 400 per month This includes:

• All connected services and data charges
• Unlimited Public Charging
• Access to all future OTAs
• Data storage and pipeline costs

Ather Service: (Price to be announced soon) This includes:

• All scheduled vehicle services

For more on pricing, check out https://atherenergy.com

@manishdabra08

Have to pay Ather whether i am in US for months!! What an idea sirji. Hatsoff to the guy who prepared the pricing.

You don’t have to! We have a snooze option where you can pay Rs. 500 instead of the full subscription amount, if you’re not going to use the scooter when you’re abroad. This can be used once a year.

[abhishek.balaji]

@sumanth1998

What may the extra subscription plan be(for service and maintenance) for the 450x?

We’re working on making the pricing available. We’ll share more details soon.

@sumanth1998

Will the 450 be discontinued? And if so when would they do it? What if you have pre-ordered 450 now?

Existing pre-orders will still be fulfilled. We’ll announce in advance when we decide to stop pre-orders for the 450.

[abhishek.balaji]

@pravarkulkarni

Hello @Ather.Team . I was very much excited for owning 450X, but I am highly disappointed with the subscription model for 450x. 1 Lac + 2K for pro subscription per month is just too much. And the increase in range between 450 and 450X is just 10Km, but the price difference is around 50K(for outright purchase) is not justified even though with additional smart connectivity features.

Hi @pravarkulkarni,

Shared this in response to a similar question today:

The price of Ather 450X and the current on-road price of Ather 450 are not comparable because the Ather 450 is extremely underpriced at Rs.1.13 lacs on-road. We did this to introduce a premium product in a price-sensitive market when we launched. In fact, if we had continued with 450, we would have increased its price anyways. Considering the experience of Ather 450 users, we’re convinced that the price of Ather 450X - a much superior product compared to the Ather 450, is justifiable for the value and experience it offers.

@pravarkulkarni

Please revisit the subscription model and provide the scooter with basic features without any subscriptions and for premium features you can have subscription as per ones requirement, like one subscription plan for battery insurance, another for service and repairs etc. Users who need will subscribe to the plans as his likings.

You can choose to buy the 450X with the upfront pricing and no subscription. We are working on restructuring the pricing, but the upfront cost will not change. We might vary the upfront price/monthly subscription rental.

[abhishek.balaji]

@harshithbhat

I might be way off the mark here (I hope not!) but considering how many people are now opting to stick with or buy 450 after the unveiling of 450X, I have a feeling Ather might reconsider its decision of de-prioritizing 450 for the next few years at least. They can’t build trust on the long run if their history has examples of them leaving thousands of customers in a lurch after planned obsolescence of 450.

That’s right, we won’t leave current owners in a lurch.

There are some new features, fixes and improvements coming to the 450 soon, apart from the optional 4G upgrade. Over the next few months, you’ll see:

1. Dark Mode
2. Smart Charging reminders (if your vehicle is low on battery)
3. Smart Navigation reminders
4. Better Keyboard on navigation (on dashboard)
5. Overhauling the app (some of the above features will be through the app)

We’ll keep you posted as and when we’re releasing these features

[abhishek.balaji]

@ram.panchapakesan

Does this mean that the home charging charges get reimbursed even when taken on lease?

Home charging reimbursements are only on the Ather One plan. You can choose which plan you want to be on, depending on your usage

[aiyappa]

Thank you @abhishek.balaji for all your patient and detailed replies, and in the frustration of the unexpected pricing I was probably harsher than I intended to be.

Your replies are convincing and acceptable. However what I am not convinced is to just have a premium product, you have priced it to a limit that the scooter is unnecessary to people other than who are nothing but EV enthusiasts.

I still strongly believe that you should have brought into market two variants, the bare basic and the premium one.

Currently the fight is not about having a premium EV, but to own an EV itself.

You don’t start selling a Mercedes before you start selling a Maruti 800.

But anyway, will wait to see your new pricing plans.

[ashu.gajare]

@abhishek.balaji must be got tired now by doing copy-paste answers:)
Idea of underprice/undercut of 450 is new to me. I haven’t heard this word before.
You guys should have declared at the time of launch of 450 that price are introductory & may increase in future. This could have positive effect on 450x instead of hate.

[abhishek.balaji]

Hey @arood.ad7,

The Eco range in 450X goes up. However, from our current customers, we realize that most commuters charge the vehicle overnight. And their daily usage is well below the current range - even in the current sports mode.

Every OEM in the world who’s attempting an EV is trying to pack more range in their vehicles. Trust us, even we are! It is not that we are not focusing on higher range. Perhaps no one in the world can give you more range than what 450X does in the shell of the 450X.

450 as well as 450X were designed for urban commuting. All the research shows that there are very very very few people who use their ‘scooters’ for commuting for more than 60-70 km per day ‘Within the City’. In fact, we’ve been selling 450 for almost 2 years now and less than 97% people ride it for more than 50 km per day. They charge overnight and are tank-full the next morning - and this cycle continues.

So, the bottom line is that very few people need a significantly higher range in a ‘City Scooter’. Despite that we are trying to pack more range in our battery and you’ll continue to see improvements in future as well.

For those who travel longer distance, perhaps something like a motorcycle would be more convenient. And trust us, when we make a bike, it’ll be the best out there!

@arood.ad7

(Bluetooth turned off in plus variant,are you serious?!?! seems like cheap business trick and plus variant gets even lesser range the outgoing 450 Just a shame.)

Bluetooth access is not just about enabling the hardware, but there’s a lot of software development and maintenance costs that go into it. Today, both the Plus and Pro have the same hardware, and the subscription plan allows you the flexibility of choosing either based on your usage.

In the future, if there’s enough demand for the Plus variant, we’ll consider differential hardware between the Plus and Pro, to further drive down costs. This practice is actually pretty common in the auto industry.