450X: Discussions on battery

For discussions on the battery of 450X Pro and Plus.

450X Pro:

Installed capacity: 2.9 kWh
Usable capacity: 2.61 kWh

450X Plus:

Installed capacity: 2.9 kWh
Usable capacity: 2.4 kWh

Warranty on upfront purchase: 3 years/Unlimited Kms
Replacement when it goes below 70%

Warranty on subscription: Unlimited
Replacement when it goes below 80%

FAQs: https://forum.atherenergy.com/c/faqs/450x-battery

2 Likes

Assuming only calendar ageing of battery, when will the battery hit 30% capacity? Do you have any graphs?

According to ather release the topic at Q&A super scooter 10000 km run battery will go’s to 80%efficiency.its can reache in a average 50km per day *200 days. Battery will replace if 70% under 3 years warranty. Something wrong with your calculations. See if I’m the owner of the company I unable to give this according to lithium battery prices however say whatever you want. For my understanding one lithium battery is b grade also 1000 to 1300 charge cycles. :face_with_monocle::face_with_hand_over_mouth::shushing_face::ok_man:

1 Like

Does this mean a better life (More cycles to reach the same SOH) of the battery on the “Plus” mode, as you’re not discharging deep as is the case in the “Pro” mode.

You mean hit 70% Health? Our battery warranty is for 3 years, unlimited kms, so if within that period, your battery health dips below 70%, we replace it under warranty.

1 Like

Technically yes, but in real usage, it might not make a noticeable difference. Our battery packs are engineered strong :mechanical_arm:

3 Likes

Do remember it is the same battery pack fr both pro and plus.
Ather uses 2.4 out f 2.9 KWh (values are indicative)i think for pro.
Since range and performance are limited on the plus it will use even lesser battery capacity.
You will never reach 70% in 3 years for a normal office run. In 3 years you may use a 1000 charge cycles and i think the 21700 retains 80% even after 1500 cycles from 0 to 100%.

Having said that it is impossible for us to predict individual battery pack behavior. There is also a time element to the battery life and the number of times you fast charge and how you charge (0 to 100 or 20 to 80%).

Think of it this way, In case you do reach this they can just unlock the capacity to bring SOC back to above 80%.

1 Like

Actually I have a 96 km distance to and fro to my office, so I am thinking whether to opt for Plus and charge it during the day at some nearby colleague’s place(a bit cumbersome) or opt for Pro and maybe fast charge on my way back to cover the last leg, both scenarios in upfront ownership. The number of cycles can be higher if I am able to charge it during the day.
This is my preliminary view, just in case I buy it focusing on my daily office commute.

1 Like

plus has 70 km range and pro has 85 km as per website. both this in eco mde.
Based on some the user stories the achievable range is under quoted by atleast 20%.
would say get pro so that you have the option to travel both ways on one charge in the worst case scenario.

Also such a long drive means you need pro to really enjoy :stuck_out_tongue:

You’ve got a point :grin: I’ll think on these lines…Thank you!

1 Like

Can you charge at your office? My employer encourages us to bring our EVs by providing 15amp sockets in the parking garage.

Personally, buying a pro version and riding in Eco mode just so that you can make it to office and back doesn’t make sense.

As of now, there are no persons owning an EV at my office premises, so will need to check with the manager of the possibility of a 5Amp socket.

As I move around during peak hours, I wouldn’t be able to extract max power out of it anyhow.
It is just a preliminary thought to do a ~100km run on an EV daily.

Why Ather 450/450x uses Li-ion instead of LiFePo4 battery which is far less hazardous, explosion proof,low internal resistance and other advantages. @abhishek.balaji @Ather.Team

Lifepo4 has a lower energy density than li-ion, using lifepo4 would mean we would get lesser range from the scooter. Li-ion is pretty safe when you use it properly and the bms in the scooter should be more than enough to take care of the battery properly.

What is the 450x battery cost

Lifep04 battery has a nominal voltage of 3.2v with fully charged voltage of 3.6v, additionally for the same cell size they also have lower AH capacity for eg in older 18650 format a lifep04 battery peaked at about 1500mah vs a li-on pack which has a 3.6v nominal and 4.2v fully charged and cell capacities peaked to about 3500mah.

Lifep04 makes sense in city buses, which have a long chassis and runs a lot daily, this is where liefpo4 batteries can work. They have faster charge rate and longer cycle life. But in cars and two wheelers there isn’t enough space for the batteries or will be super heavy with more batteries.

I meant 30% health. In case of full ownership, that is when I am considering battery replacement.

Ather, y can’t you give 5 years warranty instead of 3 yrs on battery for the full payment. So that people believe and trust Ather.

2 Likes

Just my thought on the Subscription plans,

The monthly subscription,

A. Let say there are two groups of user, both always drive in warp mode(that’s the reason to be X ain’t it) But group 1 has usage > 40km per day Group 2 has usage < 20km per day

No one wants the batter worries so we all want to go for the battery subscription model, the problem here though lies that both group of users are paying the same subscription, which for the group 2 user makes no sense.

Why wont ather come up with base battery subscription based on the user profiles. Say you had like X rs/month for users less than 5k Kms a year, Y rs /month for users with < 10k Kms per year and Z rs /month for anything greater.

Even if the user was paying X rs per month, but if the battery did come for replacement and he fell into the second band he can just pay the difference amount in subscription over the months to avail the warranty.

This makes it accessible and sensible to all users.

B. Why can’t all the data related features like ride statics and sensor data you need to improve the vehicle be synced with users phone and only the anomolies from normal be sent back to ather.( You pay for data for you phone, your home internet and again 400 per month which is 50k for your scooter? This to me the biggest pain point. Software support should not be charged heck 10k phones get it for couple of years charging 400pm for a 1L scooter is a crime).

You charging for the grid and service palms are convenient for a particular group of users, which brings to point C.

C. Battery worry relief is something we all need, so that should be the base subscription and the rest ( the grid and service) add ons.

This makes the scooter plus or pro sensible for even the low usage group.

Let me know Athers view on this.

The 450 Plus and 450X have been designed to offer different features and performance levels notwithstanding the amount of usage. However, if you think that the monthly subscription cost doesn’t make sense for your light usage, you can choose to buy the vehicle upfront at ₹149000 or ₹159000. With light usage, your battery degradation is likely to be minimal, and the usable battery life would be longer than that of a heavy usage scenario. It anyway comes with a warranty of 3 years, but the battery has been built to last much longer, so you won’t have to worry about replacement for several years.

The monthly fee that we ask to pay for connectivity is not just for the data usage, but for also for supporting future development of new features and improvements, and data pipeline and storage costs. You can choose not to opt for any subscription plan, and you’ll be able to get critical fixes installed.

1 Like