Smart Charging

prasathvishnu · February 9, 2021, 4:29am

This looks to be a pretty reliable way to do automate.

What I do is: when turning on the smart plug, I know approximate time to reach 80%. So I set an alarm and link it to Google home routine which will turn off the smart plug.

sathya7583 · February 9, 2021, 5:33am

I like that IF CONDITION !!! Good to know information Bro !!!

Suraj_madhu · February 9, 2021, 10:17am

Even Nexon has a nice energy flow graph. Not even asking for that. Just the efficiency seen next to the trip meter made available when on the move would help

rajkumar.mishra2010 · February 10, 2021, 5:28pm

Nice discussion. I wonder why Ather is not pushing an update which allows users to set a charge limit. A SoC of 70-80% is perfect for my daily need. And when I want to go out for long ride, I can set it to 100% the night before. Come on Ather, this a no brainer. Tesla has this. Please bring this in. This will be soooooo convenient and anxiety free…

ujjval · February 11, 2021, 2:00pm

I am really confused here, I usually read about smartphone batteries that, you have to put your phone on charge at 20% and try to remove at 80%, but here I am observing that everyone is suggesting to charge vehicle at 50% till 85-90%. Wouldn’t that waste extra charging cycle?

So what is optimal charge cycle? 20%-85% or 50%-85%?

Suraj_madhu · February 11, 2021, 2:45pm

Okay so the basics of it is that Li-ion batteries love to stay at 50% SOC. This is when the electrons are evenly spread across and there’s the least amount of stress on the battery. The degradation depends on how long the battery spends at a % away from 50% along with other factors.

What most people do is a 30/40-100% charging cycle. Which is realy bad for the battery. I was suggesting 50-85% because then you don’t end up charging to 100% and you stay above 50% so that you can curb your range anxiety. Idealy youre better off charging from 35-65% if you need only 30% charge. But you’ll end the day at 35% and you might need to use a bit more on somedays and you might not have even juice in your battery. So chargring to 85% in the morning and using it in the day and draining it to 50% and leaving it overnight at 50% with a charge to 85% in the morning is the best way in my opinion. It’s nearly the best. The best would still bea 40-70% cycle with a 15% charge after your done with the day and the rest charging at the time just before using. Take a look at this article. It will help you understand a bit better https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/why_mobile_phone_batteries_do_not_last_as_long_as_an_ev_battery

blackworks · February 11, 2021, 2:48pm

This logic could and absolutely should be built into the BMS, with charge profiles made selectable.

yuvanathan · February 14, 2021, 12:41pm

Can I know the smart plug brand and model?

Suraj_madhu · February 14, 2021, 3:35pm

WIPRO smart plug 16A

anjath3000 · February 16, 2021, 9:43am

Thanks for your elaborate notes on charging. My usage pattern would be hardly 3500 kms per year. Very less usage within city. I want to use the scooter for at least 9 to 10 years. Is it recommended to get the 450X? I am worried as the warranty is only 3 years and I cannot afford to spend on a new battery during this 10 years. Would like to know your thoughts on this and is it wise to stick to Electric or Petrol for my use case.

Suraj_madhu · February 16, 2021, 11:02am

The answer is not a simple yes or no. The truth of the matter is, in 10 yrs we really don’t know the battery will be. Neither does Ather. Or at least they say so. I’m sure Ather has some data on Km aging or aging based on cycles of charge and discharge. But I don’t think they’ll have enough data on ageing of the battery with time. Especially so in your case when you won’t be clocking a lot of Km in the long run. The ODO dependent Battery degradation will not be so high and time dependant degradation will affect you the most. Of all the EVs on fhe market. I truly trust the battery in Ather the most. It’s had its issues but all been more or less resolved. If you really want to use it for 10 yrs. It’s possible since your usage won’t be more than 25-30Km ( you porbably need it for 10Km a day) at the end of 10 yrs you’ll definitely still have enough range to get your through the day, provided you follow a few things.

So as you can see that a fellow owners Ather battery had degraded to 95% after 11k Km. He had not done anything to slow the battery degradation. Absolutely nothing. He used to plug in overnight charging almost every day. So his charging was 70-100 , 60-100, 50-100. And the battery would sit at 100% overnight and stay at w pretty high SOC throughout the day. Those are pretty bad conditions to be In, if youre a lithium ion battery.

If you don’t mind the slight hassle of monitoring charge cycles. Trying to keep the battery at 55% SOC for most of the time it’s idle. The. I truly believe that it can significantly improve your chances of being able to use this scooter for 10 yrs. This is what I think. But I sadly don’t have any proof to back this up. I’ve made a consistent effort of preserving my battery for the past 5k Km of the10k Km I’ve had my scooter. I’ll be doing a degradation test on my scooter soon and I’ll post here about my battery health presently. If it’s still >97% I’ll take that as a sign that my methods of charging have actually affected the degradation. I know of people who have used lead acid batteries for 4-5 years. These should comfortably last you 10 yrs.

About 3 yrs warranty. Tbh a lot of us are afraid too. Especially early owners since we know our batteries have an inherent defect in them and yet Ather won’t do anything about it. But even then I think the battery will last long. They use good quality cells.

Also for your usage of 10-15Km a day. Do you really need Ather 450X

DEFINTELY electric!!! Especially so in your case since your usage is low,

even after 10 yrs u wont really have to replace the battery since even the degraded battery will have enough range to offer for your daily usage. And not to mention the petrol prices in 10 yrs time And after 10 yrs if you were to replace the battery. God knows what technology will be available then. Maybe a battery change could result in a range of 200+ Km in your Ather , If you really like athers design and u want warp mode, and the tech that’s gone into it, I’d recommend you get the 450X. 1.6 lakhs for a scooter for 10 yrs is worth it. Especially since it’s an Ather. Go ahead man. If you question the price of the scooter. don’t jump to petrol please. , there are other EVs too.

Your choice should be Ather or other EV. Not petrol.

anjath3000 · February 16, 2021, 12:01pm

Thanks brother. You have summed all my queries so beautifully. It was like you were reading out of my thoughts. I feel more comfortable making the switch to Electric after reading your posts.

Yes, my usage will be hardly 5 to 10 kms a day and slightly higher on weekends with a zero usage period of max 1 month.

On a side note, do we have to get our neighbor or someone to switch on the scooter and ride it once a week to keep the battery happy or better to leave it on shutdown mode for the entire month or fortnight? As per the studies you mentioned, I believe we leave it at around 50% before shutting down and then charge it back to 80% or so after the one month gap. And yeah, this shutdown will surely effect battery health.

And I never even thought about the state of petrol after 10 years as you rightly said. So a long term investment should remain electric or hybrid. Cant imagine what the prices of fuel will be.

Thanks again for your insights.

Suraj_madhu · February 16, 2021, 12:17pm

A month isn’t too long. A lot of us left our scooters for 4-5 months during lockdown. Not an issue. I’m not ane xpert on tyres but there’s something about the tyres getting deformed if the scooter is not moved. But regards to the battery

If you’re going to not use it for a month. I think it’s better if you shut down at 65-70% charge so when you’re back it could be 45-50%. I’m not sure of these numbers. But don’t shut down at 50% for a month. Shut down at a bit higher SOC. There’s not problem in doing so.

What’s this? What do you have in mind? Do share.

Not a lot tbh. Of you shut down at 65% and it slowly drains to 45% and then you switch it back on. It really shouldnt affect your battery at all man.

Glad I could help you swithch to electric.

anjath3000 · February 18, 2021, 5:58am

Thanks for your insights as always.

By hybrid I meant an electric plus another alternate fuel source in the future. Someone might come up with an LPG bike as well. Who knows what the future holds.

blackworks · February 18, 2021, 8:34am

They develop flat spots. One way to easily mitigate this is to slightly overinflated the tires. That, or lift the vehicle so the tires are completely off the ground.

ujjval · February 24, 2021, 12:13pm

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation, I have also read the article which you added, pretty impressive.

Suraj_madhu · February 24, 2021, 3:22pm

Update. The wipro app automation doesn’t work very well🤦 It’s very unreliable. It worked a few times but then it stops working. Can’t rely on it.
The timer is more reliable. Scheduling charging is the only way I suppose

ashish.nba · February 25, 2021, 6:12am

Meanwhile, for folks who has their Ather parking/Charging space not in Wifi-reachable area and smart plug cannot be used, it can really be a tough situation to maintain their battery health. I am also in the same situation, where my parking/charging is in the basement and has no access to Wifi.

However, after some research, found out a manual auto cut-off switch, which can be programmed manually when to turn on and turn off. I have been using it for almost a month now, and have found quite reliable. It can be programmed for every day of the week, and has 10 different program options as well. Product link below:

Due to WFH, and no regular routine usage, i have been using it as and when the need arises, after parking if the SOC has dropped below 40/50, i put it on charge for approximately an hour. With some observation i am sure each one of us can figure out the approximate time required to charge for a required level.
Of course for a regular traveler, it can also be of help who needs overnight charging, but also want to maintain their battery health and keep the max charging around 80% on a regular basis hence uplifting their battery health.

Thought of sharing this so that this can be of help for folks who cannot have Smart Charging for their smart scooter.

rajkumar.mishra2010 · March 2, 2021, 5:27pm

Such workarounds are fine for some time but over time this is not acceptable. Ather should allow us to remotely stop/start charging and also allow us to set the charging limit via the app. Its an EV after all, these features are the basic necessities.

rajkumar.mishra2010 · March 18, 2021, 7:04am

The inability to stop and start charge via the app is frustrating now. … Additionally, the lack of a slider to select how much to charge is equally frustrating. Whats the point of EV then? Isn’t it supposed to be smart after all?