Is it not cheating?

So are these. Heh:

WiFi 2.45G

Bluetooth 4.2

BLE 5.0

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I’m starting to think there is probably some light trolling going on here. No other possible reasonable explanation for this :upside_down_face:

This post might interest you too:

Whataboutism! Not having bluetooth yet does not negate the motor and the rest of the features! :smiley: Not like the PMSM motor is gonna magically appear in March once bluetooth is enabled, just because we drew a correlation!

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Assuming 100% = 60 km, the scooter consumes 1% every 0.6 km

Per what you posted, it takes a 8 km downhill to regen that much. That’s less than 10% regenerated. Also, my above assumption assumes a 60 km range on flat ground. If it were to be going uphill, the range woud be lower, dropping the regen percentage even more.

Stuff was advertised that naver materialized. The end.

Found it

found it. Here you go

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There are plenty of gradients near my place. One of these nights, when I’m feeling like it, I’ll try an uphill and downhill comparison. Maybe even take the covers off and check the make of the motor, and compare it with the old 450, assuming I can sweet talk the new owner into letting me poke around for a bit.

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Regen is capped at 4-5% of SoC. Same as it is on the 450. One of the reasons why it rarely appears as a key feature in marketing material.

WiFi is part of the hardware

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So one of the key benefits of EV neutered and brushed under the carpet. Nice.

They could have solid gold as part of the hardware. If it’s not usable, it’s no good.

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That’s an inherent deficiency in DC motors. That’s why you don’t see good regen on any 2 wheeler.

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I have been following the trend many days, just want share my views. You need to agree that no other scooter have so many features available market, making a statement is very easy, I think no other company has such open forum to express there views, They are listening to you, they are not denying the facts, I strongly believe they are working harder on every issue coming up in the forum. Just for your information, I purchased subscription before I got my series 1, but subscription started after I got the delivery, the subscription activated date was on the the day it was activated. Think of Honda India they have a side stand as accessories, just giving an example. Bajaj a big brand, have batteries and motor coming from Bosch, still they are facing issues. The customer have to go to dealer for every issue, where as here in the forum and such a huge data & facts coming straight from owners most of the issue are know. In my opinion it’s a fantastic platform to discuss any issues. At least you come to know that it’s the issue with your vehicle or other are also have same issue. With such huge data with company the product will improve only. Tesla also struggled in starting, but they came up long way to become the biggest brand. I have been following this company for over since they have launched of S340 to 450X. The product has improved a lot and will become Tesla of India. I waited almost for 2 years for my Ather series 1, and I am proud to own a made in India scooter. My opinion, this is one of the best companies in India as they listening to you in an open forum & this is not cheating.

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I know Boeing is not a correct comparison, the point is only the intension. Agreed Boeing grounded the entire defective aircraft series that came after heavy life loss and Airlines grounded there defective flights models, then Boeing accepted their failure. Sophisticated Aircraft with so much QA checks were only able to find their mistake after life loss.

question is not about taking the Boeing example here, it is only about the intension of accepting the defect and correcting it. On this line with 3 months of driving exp with Ather, i am confident that coming days they will answer their bugs.

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It’s like comparing an apple to an orange and then saying it’s the intention that counts.

A motor, battery, couple of belts, two wheels, brakes and the associated control systems on a scooter are simpler than the air freshener systems in an airplane.

I’ve been riding the scooter much longer, and see things differently. Even though I don’t share your optimism, I do hope you’re right. I’m in no mood to be charitable when I’ve supported a company wholeheartedly with my wallet only to be handed a buggy prototype that nobody bothered to properly check before delivery.

I Do Agree on the Air freshener’s Part -

Cost of Manufacturing a 450 x is - let’s say for an Instance - 90k (Rough Estimate - 70k or even Lesser - since it’s Manufactured in Bulk). They are Making profit of More than 1 Lakh on a single 450x.

Instead of making the existing prototype/product (450x) to stabilize, they are more focused on expanding business in all cities.

Features promised are available in website only! When asked for a update they don’t provide actual timeframe (Come on, just adding features to existing app doesn’t require much time; I’m an app developer too)

And what about the referral amount of 2500! Just numbers which we can’t use for Subscription as Mentioned in website. They should make referral amount accessible for subscription from (Jan-Feb 2021). Let’s see if they adhere to policies mentioned officially on website

@abhishek.balaji, required inputs from your end on referral part - “Will Ather Deliver as promised…?!”

To all - rather than fighting/arguing/discussing among yourselves, Can someone shed lights on referral amount…?!

You get ₹3500 credits when someone who uses your Code and completes payment. Untill then, it is locked. ₹2500 is the old amount before the updation of refferal program. If these credits are earned through a YouTuber’s pre order code, CS will be better to throw some light. I had also earned 2500 credits like this but that order I switched and later cancelled so I lost those :frowning: If you’ve earned credits before the program got changed, you’ll still receive the benefits according to the old scheme.

I couldn’t care less what the actual cost of manufacture or the profit margin is. That’s the company’s prerogative and I don’t grudge them making good profits. In fact, I couldn’t figure out why they sold the 450 at a loss and dug themselves into a hole.

What I do expect is that they stick to their word once they’ve collected said money. There are always circumstances beyond ones control. Nobody saw COVID coming. That would definitely have set their timelines back quite a bit. Keeping that in mind, a responsible company should have made a loud and clear announcement on their homepage and / or sent out a mass email about these updated timelines. Instead, they chose to selectively reveal this critical information in much more private settings. This is not done.

What is absolutely unacceptable no matter the circumstances is delivering defective scooters to customers, and as many have pointed out here on the forum and on other channels, coercing them into accepting these despite the customers themselves pointing this out.

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6 posts were split to a new topic: Motor on the Ather 450X

How does it matter to customers, customers need to get all promised features.

Thats why i reiterate its full cheating from Ather.

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Sorry to burst your bubble but products don’t come that cheap. Men, Machine, Materials and/or Methods are not so cheap. Not even in India. I’ll happily give you my ₹90K if you can manufacture and get me a completely new scooter anything close to an Ather. From conceptualization to manufacturing to homologation to delivery. Everything comes at a cost.

It’s a fact that Ather’s pricing makes the scooter not affordable to all. I can also gather from your posts that you are unhappy about it too…fair enough. But for 70K!!! Heights of exaggeration I’d say! I can bet that even for Bajaj, the Chetak is costing around 2 Lakhs to the company.

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I am sorry but this is hilarious! Over 1 lakh profit per 450X?? So that would mean they also made 40 to 50k on the hugely popular but discontinued 450, because clearly the money minting wasn’t enough? The government must be off it’s rocker providing subsidies for a ‘highly profitable’ business like this.

Please do your research before you make such claims.

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Continuing the discussion from Is it not cheating?:

I Really waited this long for someone to point this out, I’m not even able to make a mid end gaming computer in 90k

So let me break down it for you,

Starting from the top,

Mirrors - 2000

2 pilot lamps - 900-1200 depending on what chip of FOB is used

Headlights - 5k,

front panels 10k All 4 of them Painted

front mudguard 1-1.5k, Painted

2 front suspension 3 k

wheel alloy 2 pc 6 k

2 disc brake - 4-5 k

brake pads - 1k

brakes pot - 2 pc front combi and rear single pot 4k +2 k

CBS 3 k the module which controls combi brake

brake harness 3 pc5 pc, 2 to CBS 3 output - 3k

brake lever 3k since they are with brake fluid tanks

display - 12-18k

PCB for display - 5-9k depends on the chipset

seat 2k

storage unit - 2k

rear panel 2 painted 4k

PSM motor 40k with the controller mostly I think Siemens brand “Correction Mahle Motor”

14s20p or 14p 18650 cells for 450 and 14s 10p 21700 cells each costs 700rs retail so in bulk at least 400-500 for 18650 and 500-600 for 21700 that would come around 46800 my bare minimum

then comes custom BMS 6 to 12k depending on the configuration

all black plastics around 6-8 k

rear tail light which if you break 3500(don’t ask how) so the cost must be 2000-2500

Full aluminum chassis around 20k

tires 2 2000

Lady saree guard 400

all the 1000 screws - 600-2000

rear grab handle 600 Side stand 800

and the wiring harness with sockets and other things like connectors and switches 10000 to 15000 considering everything comes in bulK you can decrease 10% and some parts I left out like the case for battery pack getting software specification certificates testing the scooter for IRDA transportation charges and much more comes to almost 2lac I remember @tarun said in one of the Owners meet that they are making a huge loss in making 450s because the plant is small and manufacturing cost is much high then they sell it to the customer that is why 450s was dropped but if they make 1 lac on a scooter then Ather would beat every scooter Manufacturer in the next 10 years making almost 100 cr every year

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If you can provide me with a Manufacturing unit like Ather, where we can manufacture in bulk (Rough Estimate- 5k vehicles), Then ,in that kind of Environment, I’m happy to manufacture and delivery at the cost of 90k

If you would run a Business you would know the actual cost - I Do - and I am Aware of it. If @arvind_nair @hemanth.anand made up your mind not to Believe, it’s a waste of my time and Energy (If you believe you are right - thumbs Up)

Kindly check the Breakdown by @power_light2000 - Thanks to u

If anyone is commenting on my post, two things:

  1. Take ownership and get the job done - Making referral amount in Feb 2021 accessible to eligible Ather owners or
  2. Contact concerned person and get the exact date of referral amount accessible to all

If you can do neither of those, not the right person to comment on my post

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