Ather Dot, the new home charging pod

Ather 450 Charging
21

Ather team would have never thought that they’d get this much of criticism for having a new and better looking charger and shedding of some weight from the scooter.

Other than the green light which can blind people at night, I don’t think anything was wrong with it. Charging time was pretty good. They could have just changed the design. I know that it can bring down the earthing related issues. But charging point with the dot is a little ridiculous.

Having a bigger portable charger will eat up the boot space which is bad. Though the scooter might shed some weight, eating up more boot space is not good.

If our scooters are Ather 450 v1, is this 1.1?
They should have introduced all this in v2. 1.1 is a bad idea for something this huge.

4 Likes
22

Good one

1 Like
23

Remember when OnePlus 3T changed how the mobile chargers were. The size became more than double but it brought damn fast charging without getting the mobile heated… All by transferring large part of charging from mobile to charger…

Now, it’s one of the largest chargers but one of the loved chargers because it is so much faster and gives greater convenience…

If the benefits are more then it’s worth. But here, I m not sure. May be we need to see if vehicle increases efficiency by 5% at least.

2 Likes
24

But the dot is smaller and takes 1.5 - 2 extra hours to charge the scooter. Which is ridiculous.

Just remember that 5% doesn’t even sum up to 5 KM. So unless it’s 20-30% better, it’s not worth it.

4 Likes
25

True… home charger becoming smaller and portable charger becoming bigger :slight_smile:

In fact, I was really optimistic about 5% efficiency… I will be happy to take extra 5 km range. Anything more, please prove me wrong.

3 Likes
26

Ather is doing some cost cutting hope that is reflected to customers
Advantages of new bike to users

  1. Batter battery life span
  2. Increased Range
  3. Lighter vehicle
  4. Avoid earthing problems
  5. Reduce heating problems
    6)Reduce fan Noise

Dis-Advantages of new bike to users

  1. Longer charging time
  2. No freedom to travel long distance
    (Long rides not possible outside the city because we should wait 4hrs of charge to travel Next 60km)
  3. Paid Ather Dot installations charges

Advantages to AtherEnergy

  1. No Installation charges saves Ather (Rs2000) or even more than that
  2. Batter battery life span decreases . Number battery replacement required In warranty
  3. Reduced Ac to Dc converter cost
  4. Reduce inventory space
  5. number of worked for installation Ather Dot decreases
  6. Reduce parts on vehicle (Ac to Dc convertor)
  7. Reduce time,space,workers required,cost during Assembly
    Etc …

Insurance price should be decreased

  1. decreased parts on vehicle

Ather is profiting a lot from the new changes
Hope Ather can reduces the cost of Ather 450 At-least Rs6,000 ~ Rs4000 On each vehicle with new changes or make increase the battery capacity to 2.9Kwh

9 Likes
27

Where did you read about this? I do not see any mention of this in the announcement that Shreyas did in the internal updates thread.

I remember @Shreyas saying that it also addressed fluctuation related issues that the current one has.

However, I am kinda upset that Ather has made the installation a “customer activity”. The whole premise of the Ather experience was that they take care of everything for the on-road price. Why the sudden shift from that policy?

Everytime someone asks me about how do I charge I proudly point out that Ather is the only one that comes home and fixes a point. Guess I’ll have to stop doing that now. And 5mts of wiring and conduit only?

Very very disappointed with this announcement.

11 Likes
28

True… Whenever some one says it’s difficult to lay a line from meter, I say them Ather takes care of it completely.

I was part of few revolt forums. People who never had EV was arguing how we will install charging point and electrician won’t know these etc etc…

I was telling they should follow Ather way to make it hassle free experience…

5 Likes
29

It’s all a part of cost cutting. Seriously disappointing. Charging money for installing the dot is too much. For the price we pay, IT SHOULD BE INCLUDED.

6 Likes
30

I think installation of new Ather Dot will be much simpler that can be done by ourself or by any electrician .Some people who can do it by themself can get cost benefits of Rs 1800 . If it is done by electrician it would cost about Rs 800 in which you can still save Rs 1000. I don’t think that will be a trouble … I hope that cost reduction goes to costumers … Thanks to Ather they have made it much simpler.

3 Likes
31

Doesn’t mean it’s unsuitable for external usage. It just means take additional precautions such as using a MCB/RCCB, keep it above the flood water line if your house happens to be in a low lying area and away from pets or hoomans who think its a new toy, etc.

2 Likes
32

Of course you can save 1000 or so by getting it done by your electrician. But do remember that the installation was included in all our scooters. But now you’ll have to pay for it.

2 Likes
33

Resistance to any changes is human behaviour. Be it good or bad, it does not matter. We realise the good things of some changes after some time. Duration of acceptance of changes is an arbitrary parameter and it may vary from a minute to years. I am seeing this phenomenon everywhere, in-home or in-office too. Well, I am not an exception either. I too crib.

Now, let me analyse what might have caused the change from POD to DOT.

  1. We were complaining about FAN noise while our 450 was charging.
  2. We were complaining about the intensity of Greenlight.
  3. We were complaining about the flickering of light.
  4. We complained about Greenlight turning to Red often.
  5. We were complaining about too rigid safety.

Safety

Design Safety
In the current version of 450 (let me call it as v1.0 and second version as v1.1), the vehicle was charging using alternative current (or simply call it as AC). When the vehicle is being charged with AC, there is hell a lot of precautions that need to be taken care of. First and foremost is safety. 450 should not have any leakage current or voltage. That’s the reason why POD installation guys were very strict. They checked everything, say voltage between Neutral to Earth (this is for voltage) too and installed RCCB for any leakage current. Thus, they ensured the input part. On the other side, our 450 vehicle needs to be super safe since it is taking AC. Any compromise in safety would be fatal and Ather cannot take any risk.

Now if we talk about EMI/EMC - any equipment that works with AC is tough to qualify EMI/EMC requirement as the Immunity and emissions are more compared to DC. If Ather is planning to go out of India, this will be an extremely tough job. Marketing in Europe is a tough nut to crack.

Maintenance Safety
Now let me talk about the maintenance part. Our House, POD, and the 450 have life. Our house gets old - cables, household equipment, earthing etc. Over the period of time, leakage will definitely increase. So, the RED light of POD will glow more. Eventually, Ather will have to solve this.

Design philosophy

Charging Design

Earlier since 450 was charging with AC, AC to DC converter was inside 450. Since the AC voltage is higher, the current can be less so as to meet the Power Rating demand. That will definitely help in reducing the physical size of Portable Charger and circuitry inside the POD. However, having AC to DC converter inside 450 will generate a lot of heat as 450 is charging at high DC current. Components in the PCB needs to be cooled down, thus they added a fan. Added to all these, whole charging circuitry is to be waterproof and to be inside an IP-54 (?) enclosure.

By moving the AC-DC converter, there are multiple ways it will help the 450.

  1. Safety is less stringent as it is charged by DC.
  2. EMI/EMC can be tamed easily.
  3. The whole PCB+Enclosure can go away from the vehicle. This will help by
    a. Reducing the complexity
    b. Weight reduction (heard it is about 7Kg less in v1.1)
    c. Improved efficiency as the weight is less

Ather, therefore, replaced POD with DOT.

DOT and equivalent portable charger

If Ather has to maintain the same charging time for both, they have to maintain almost a similar electronic circuitry for both. However, the physical size of a portable charger will be a challenge. So, as a first step, they might have come up with a portable charger which is portable enough. Then they might have moved to POD (DOT) with similar charge time. Probably they might be using the same circuity for both DOT and portable charger that will help them to get good PCB volume thus helping them in cost.

Did they worry about more charging time?

I do not think so. The reason is that, based on the background data they collect, they know very well that most, say 99% of charging happens at night or early morning. Now, if they stretch this charging time by an hour, it is not a big deal. In fact, it helps to prolong the life expectancy of the battery. Note, people like Abhishek (Daada) and Hemanth who travelled off the city are very few. Note, Public Grid Charging time remains the same for v1.1.

To my understanding, v1.0 can still be charged using DOT. However, 1.1 cannot be charged with old POD nor old portable charger.

So, what are the negative things about DOT?

  1. Visible LED: Does not make any sense as the Dashboard + App indicates the charge status.
  2. More charging time: For regular users, it is not a big deal. In fact it is PLUS by improving the life time of battery.
  3. Installation Charges: They said it is very easy to install by anybody. I hope it is just hanging the DOT on the nail and connecting the power cord to the socket.
  4. If the DOT is not waterproof as it POD, then definitely it is a big minus.

So, if you ask what would I choose between v1.0 and 1.1? I will say I will go for v1.1 considering less stringent power requirement, more efficient 450 (as weight is less)

I know it is too long an article. But I hope it is useful. By the way, Ather did not pay me to write this :slight_smile: All these are my own analogy based on my electronics background and industry experience.

40 Likes
34

Saaar the way you analyze and bring out your opinion is absolutely brilliant.

Kudos to you and @hemanth.anand. You both are the best. We need more people like you. It makes the forum a better place.

Whenever I see your/Hemanth’s post I like it before I even read it.

9 Likes
35

Even if Ather tells they paid you, we won’t believe. That’s the trust you have gained. It’s not about you being right or wrong, but you are trusted :slight_smile:

7 Likes
36

That was an awesome analysis.

I am from Chennai and I pre-ordered in the first batch.Will I be getting the ather DOT with ather 450.Will there be any extra charges

Coming to ather 450 , will I get the v1.1 ?
@Shreyas

1 Like
37

You will get ather 450 1.1 without any extra cost

1 Like
38

Will come with DOT, since you ordered first batch , it will come with free of cost for standard installation

2 Likes
39

With network issues and app glitch, I found the LED is a better visual indicator… Even Dot should have had with more subtle one.

6 Likes
40

Screenshot_Gmail_20190831-172614
Screenshot_Gmail_20190831-172614.png1080×1920 248 KB

Really sorry
I missed this point in the mail, the new charger only affects for people purchasing from October !

3 Likes